We are having issues with 3mm PVC edges falling off after they have been in the field for over 3 years. We apply the 3mm edges with a Brandt KD85CF edgebander. We are using Jowat 280.9 adhesive. We run samples throughout the day to check the adhesion. We have retained samples since 2010. The retained samples still have good adhesion. I have sent samples to Jowat for testing and they confirm that the adhesion is good on the samples we have sent them. We have checked our glue pot temperature and the temperature at the glue head. The temperature is on the high end of the recommended run temperature. We are trying to find out if anyone else has had issues with PVC edges falling off after they have been in the field for some time.
Hi Kevin- to give an answer to your problem I´m
missing the kind of basic material.Is is PB,
MDF or what else?I do agree that moisture
might be the reason.But - do you seal (pre-
glue)the edges before appl. the PVC?Do you preheat the PVC material ?What speed
are you using? There are many questions to
answer before giving any advice.
PVC Edgebanding falling off? Whats surprising about that. Can't tell you how many times as a kid, I peeled the banding right off cheap factory furniture, and millwork etc...
Imo edge banding of any kind is not the most reliable option if long term quality is an issue. Kind of a coin toss. You do it right and control your process in theory it will be fine but in reality who knows. Get sketchy adhesion on one panel on a job, and there goes your reputation. There are so many freakin variables. Glue temp fluctuates, get a less than perfect edge on a handful of parts, dust, temperature of parts, etc...
I limit its use to items that can be replaced easily, like shelves. Can fix that under warranty with no problem. Obviously I do not do much commercial work.
Much can be learned about failure just by looking at the glue line. It there transfer to the banding? Is the glue that is left behind smooth with little or no transfer? Suspect cold working conditions or materials.
3mm can be really stiff. When you get near the end of the roll It can want to curl even more. That applies a continuous force on the glue line. The trade is using softer banding BUT as I understand it the more softening chemical is added the weaker the ultimate bond, caused at least in part to shrinkage.
reading some of the responses I didn't give all the details. As some of you have said there are many variables. We are running 3mm PVC. The PVC that we are having issues with is made by UltraTech. We are running a Brandt KD85CF edgebander. The line speed is 25 Meters a minute I believe, which cannot be changed. We are putting the edges particle board panels. We have found on the edges that fail the adhesive is sticking to the particle board and the surface of the PVC is sticky. It looks like the bond between the PVC and glue is failing. We have looked at plastizer migration. We have looked at primer issues. We have found one common factor is the end users are using cleaners that have peroxide or other solvents. This would make sense given the fact that the edges are falling off after being in the field since 2008. We are not sure this is the answer. If any of you have any other ideas we welcome any input. Thanks.
FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards(return to top)
WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
A valid email return address must be included with each message.
Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.
You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.
WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.
Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).
Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.
Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).
Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).
Repeated Forum Abuse:
Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.
There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).
The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)
Forum Posting Form Guidelines
The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines
Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Thread Related File Uploads
Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .FLV .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
The editors, writers, and staff at WOODWEB try to promote safe practices.
What is safe for one woodworker under certain conditions may not be safe
for others in different circumstances. Readers should undertake the use
of materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB after considerate evaluation,
and at their own risk.