Looking for some advise from other shops. We are using tightbond origional yellow glue for our cabinet doors and frames. We use soft maple for all of our paint grade kitchens. I have noticed hairline cracks at the joints on both frames and doors. it is very inconsistant and will very from job to job. here it the process on how we assemble
1 dampen edges of wood to be glued
2 wait 15 to 30 minutes for the wood to dry and grain to pop
3 apply glue to both surface areas
4 insert door into door clamp and pin all joints
5 remove door from clamp and clean off any excess glue
6 set door aside for glue to dry minimum 4 hours
7 bondo any nail holes ect...
8 run all doors through widebelt sander
prep and paint can happen between 1 day or 1 week after
we will see failure in the joint only on the surface. not all of the way through. Any suggestions?
A few thoughts about your glue process. If your edges are freshly machined you shouldn't need to dampen them with water. It's always best to glue with freshly machined parts. You shouldn't need to apply glue to both surfaces. You may be getting too much adhesive in the joint. A thin glue line is always stronger. Best practice would suggest allowing 24 hours for the glue to cure. Most shops don't do this and will machine in 8 hours or so. Four hours may be pushing it.
Thanks for the advise Jeff. The only problem i can see with freshly machined parts is that the style of the door is almost polished after running a profile on it. That is the reason we wipe it with a damp rag. 2 years ago we used poplar for doors and frames, and were a bit concerned with how the glue joint would react on a harder wood
Apply the glue to one surface. Usually the rail in a door. There should be enough glue for good coverage and a tiny amount of squeeze out. Put them in clamps for 45 minutes to 1:15 depending on the temp. Let them sit for 3 days for the water in the glue to come out of the wood.
If you do it that way you won't get your lines.
Clamping and pinning is not a good way to glue. You can't retain the needed pressure with pins. Doing it this way will allow the joint to separate just a little bit, but enough for you to see it in the finish.
We run a tremendous amount of doors and stuff like butcher block tops, along with plastic laminate casework. We use Tightbond 2 with great results. There are times we have pushed 45 minutes and through it in the wide belt. I agree with others about too much glue. Anyway I hope we have helped
The only products that benefits from water dampening are moisture cure polyurethanes(Gorilla Glue).
You are slowing the drying time of the TB1 by wetting the wood. I have never heard of anyone doing it. Then you are not leaving them in clamps for very long. Then you are sanding them in a short amount of time. I suspect there is hardly any glue at joint mostly because of the wetting step.
PVA glues love to stick to smooth surfaces. The smoother the better. The best glue joints are achieved off of a brand new sharp set of jointer knives.
PVA also like thin glue joints. It is almost impossible to apply too much pressure with typical pipe/case clamps. You would have sore hands after a few doors.
Unless the profile are burnt or glazed you should use them right off the shaper/door machine. If they are get the set sharpened or learn how to use the machine properly.
Apply glue to 1 surface(2 is a waste of time and does not help), clamp , pin with 22 gauge pinner, leave in clamps for a minimum of 5 minutes.(Lots of clamps are needed to make doors.) Clean the glue off of the profiles. Leave it on the faces. Sand them typically the next day.
I have haven't had a door surface crack in 15 years.
I prefer to sand, prime, putty, sand, topcoat. You end up double puttying by using a filler before primer. There will always be more minor defects. Bondo also can lead to print thru when painting. It is too hard.
FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards(return to top)
WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
A valid email return address must be included with each message.
Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.
You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.
WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.
Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).
Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.
Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).
Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).
Repeated Forum Abuse:
Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.
There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).
The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)
Forum Posting Form Guidelines
The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines
Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Thread Related File Uploads
Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .FLV .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
The editors, writers, and staff at WOODWEB try to promote safe practices.
What is safe for one woodworker under certain conditions may not be safe
for others in different circumstances. Readers should undertake the use
of materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB after considerate evaluation,
and at their own risk.