Adhesives

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Quartersawn white oak counter tops

8/28/12       
Gary

Can Any help me with this I,m gluing up some Quartersawn white oak tops and for some reason the board are moving swelling and you can see the seams can anyone tell if this is a normal thing or am I doing something wrong it doesn't happen to every seam just a few.

8/28/12       #2: Quartersawn white oak counter tops ...
g6

Sounds to me like wet wood. It doesn't take much.

8/28/12       #3: Quartersawn white oak counter tops ...
Rich

How thick is the white oak? What is the moisture content of the wood? White oak can be tough to dry. Do you mean the seams are opening up, or you can feel them? If they are opening up, how old is the glue and what glue are you using?

8/28/12       #4: Quartersawn white oak counter tops ...
Gary Member

The top is 1 1/2 thick and the glue was wilsonart #10 PVA, We can't feel the glue seam but there is a swell in the wood on one side of the seam. We saw in the shop the first time we glued it up so we recut and glued it back together and after we installed it. It reared its ugly head again. What I think might be happening is something to do with the wood moisture and because it is quartered if you look at the end on the top to see the end grain this piece the grain is at a 45 degree angle and the other piece is is butting up against the grain is perfectlly vertical so I think the 45 degree is swelling and pushingup or the vertical piece is shrinking down that is the only thing I can think of.

8/28/12       #5: Quartersawn white oak counter tops ...
Leo G  Member

Website: http://www.lrgwood.com

Glue up the wood, let it dry, rough sand it, let it sit for at least 3 days, final sand it. You shouldn't have problems after that as long as it is the moisture in the glue that is causing this issue.

If you are still having the issue then it's likely that the glue isn't the problem.

Try a different glue and see if you have the same results.

If you keep having this problem try epoxy or urea glue.

8/28/12       #6: Quartersawn white oak counter tops ...
Rich

Really sounds like you have some wet wood. Quarter sawn changes dimension with moisture change in a vertical direction. Letting it sit a little while won't help much if it is changing that much, that quickly. I'd say your supplier ran a bad batch through the kiln. Get a refund, and buy somewhere else. It's likely the whole kiln batch is bad.

8/29/12       #7: Quartersawn white oak counter tops ...
Gene Wengert-WoodDoc

It sounds like the wood is a bit high in MC, or at least some pieces are. Appreciate that at 45 degrees, you will get about 1% size change with 3% MC change, while with the perfectly vertical grain adjacent piece, it is 6 to 7% MC change for a 1% size change.

Leo G also mentions waiting 3 days while the moisture in the adhesive dissipates before sanding or planing. This is so important, as otherwise the moisture will leave after planing or sanding and you will see a size difference right at the joint.

Note that white oak moves so much with RH changes, it is important to glue within minutes after preparing the surface so that your joints are flat and true.

12/15/15       #8: Quartersawn white oak counter tops ...
David Member

Website: http://www.salisburyartisans.com

I'm reading this post with interest. I am bidding a production run of quartered white oak tables. I haven't seen a recommended MC for receiving the white oak boards. Any more things to watch out for would be appreciated, ie ways to keep MC constant while in production and after. Thanks.

Quartersawn white oak counter tops

12/15/15       #9: Quartersawn white oak counter tops ...
Gene Wengert-WoodDoc

First to start, think always about relative humidity. Start with the humidity in the location where the product will be used. Then keep your manufacturing and storage area at that humidity (within 5% RH) if at all possible. Then convert this RH value to an EMC (which is the MC that wood will have at that humidity); for example 37% RH converts to 7.0% EMC, so lumber or wood tables at 37% RH will be at 7.0% MC. Temperature is not a factor.

Because white oak moves a lot with only small RH changes, get the initial lumber MC as close as possible to the in use value.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)