Architectural Woodworking

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Designed to fail

3/26/16       
Larry

How do you handle designers that insist on having something made that is sure to fail? Sales counter specs: book match ash veneer top & edges, maintain "crisp" face to top lines. Normally we would propose an alternative and turn down the job if it was insisted to be designed to fail. But this one is one of those quick turnaround jobs for a regular contractor customer. Another part of the job is to be 1/8" brushed aluminum, clear coated "veneer." This part also has the face and top meeting to maintain a "crisp" look.
Next job: mobile service carts, enclosed base to conceal the 4 swivel casters. 20" O.C. X 9" O. C. Also part of a larger job for a regular contractor. She says it gives an "elegant floating look."
Unique, elegant, crisp & I might add function free. Educated? End of rant.

3/27/16       #2: Designed to fail ...
Mark

Sometimes, if they want it upside down and purple, you make it upside down and purple- perfectly upside down and purple.

Unfortunately, many (most?) designers are long on form and short on function. Make written notes of your objections to those concerned and build them.

3/27/16       #3: Designed to fail ...
Dan/drbwoodworks

In a recent contract and on the drawings , I wrote we can not and will not guarantee 30" wide cabinet doors not from twisting and warping in inset cabinetry . They seemed to be fine with buying new doors in the future if needed . We always come across building things that I'm not comfortable with but do as best as we can and make it known to all parties your concerns .

3/27/16       #4: Designed to fail ...
rich c.

Just make the first line of your contract read something like; Built per design and specifications of XXXXXX
and go from there. Then end with the guarantee covers materials and workmanship, not design or performance.

3/28/16       #5: Designed to fail ...
Larry

There are a couple of issues with placing any liability limits in a contract. The first is "Implied warrantee." Meaning if you build it you warrantee it. The 2nd is the courts have ruled that a customer cannot sign away his right to sue.

3/28/16       #6: Designed to fail ...
David R Sochar Member

They can't specify woodwork beyond the basics, just as you are (probably) not qualified to be a designer, beyond the basics.

You may be better off contacting them with positive suggestions - improvements for your shop doing the work as well as helping the designer/project somehow. Partner with them, and phrase it as such. Do mention that the info you can share and add to the project is proprietary and that you understand you will get the work.

Once you do this a time two, let them know they can call you to get input at the design stage, again with the caveat that you will get the work. This part is dicey, since their employer may demand sending it out to 3 shops, etc - with your specs added. But if it is the kind of designer where a relationship can be formed, it will be worthwhile.

As for those castors 9" apart? If it is taller than 20", a basic lesson in physics may be called for to explain how that may be too tippy to be useful, floating or not. If it is a cart where people work, explain the advantage to feet being able to go under the cart for more comfortable work. Loss of floating elegance, but big gain in function.

3/28/16       #7: Designed to fail ...
Larry

In each case alternative s were proposed but rejected. Our alternatives always list the our perceived reasons and advantages. The designer of the "floating cart" got downright nasty about any changes to her design that would destroy it's "elegance."
The contractors are caught in the middle. IMHO a design that fails function is a failure. Now if you want to smear purple paint on the wall, have at it, The function has been achieved, PR. I do have some claim to design, graduate architect. I'll build anything they want as long as it doesn't represent a liability to me.

3/28/16       #8: Designed to fail ...
Chris

What mark said

4/21/16       #9: Designed to fail ...
Brent Taylor Member

I worked for an Architect years ago that told the contractor I was working with, in no uncertain terms, Architects design, builders build and customer pay. Even if. Your right, your wrong and all you get from beating your head against the wall is a lump on your head.


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