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Woven Wood Doors, Part II Failure!

4/2/18       
David R Sochar Member

Part Two: Failure!

The “Jig Of Doom”, while very well executed and stout, had a fatal flaw. Cutting into the grain was just too much for the tile, and we saw a 50% failure rate on the first go ‘round. The two parts that survived were very nice - smooth and perfectly curved.

A very dramatic failure rate as evidenced by the sounds and parts flying out of the shaper! Hit the deck and the Red Button

The forward edge of each tile was being caught by the knives and snagging it enough to where it either broke the forward edge on the vertical grain parts, or took off the entire face on the horizontal grain parts. While each tile was held inlace by two vertical tongues and two horizontal tones, all of them wedged tight, there was nothing to hold the front face in place. If the dado were not there, then they probably would have run ok. But then, how to put the dadoes in? Severe rejection.

We talked a bit about a chip breaker of some sort. Our motivation/hope was to still make the curve cut in one go. We still had to turn it over and run the back, but that was two passes (x 124 blocks) vs. four passes - another 500 passes! We just did not come up with a way to make the jig work.

We even joked (seriously) about mounting it on the lathe, but that would be slow. And that grain could still be a problem on a significant number of parts to be a no go

We thought about a spiral stagger tooth head, thinking that might minimize the impact. Small chips making lots of cuts in sequence instead of one of two big knives crashing into the part., hammering away until it broke. Time and expense ruled that out.

This jig had some time in it, and our scrap pile was notably depleted by its use of some thick stock. It really was a fine piece of shop work, with density to impart confidence and solidity. It had safety built in, since it could not feed unless everything was in order. The accuracy of the cut was unquestionable. The damn thing just did not works well as it should have.

Evolution is basic to our problem solving. Complex projects often have to evolve before the path is found. we expect this, but still try to prevent dead ends. This was a dead end since we would have to move to a yet to be denied Plan B. I rarely count on an unknown jig hitting all points on the first go round, even though I hope for it. It may even take a third build to get everything needed, incorporated.

As they say "Back to the drawing board"


View higher quality, full size image (1800 X 1350)


View higher quality, full size image (1800 X 1350)


View higher quality, full size image (1800 X 1350)

4/2/18       #2: Woven Wood Doors, Part II Failure! ...
Pete

I have done a decent amount of flush cutting on the shaper. Engaging that amount of end grain on an up hill cut is crazy. If you engage the cutter at the center or neutral grain and cut down hill, you may have success. Double spindle shaper with one running in reverse rotation? Here is a crazy idea- what if you ran all the parts long grain through the shaper, reference off the back side for the grooves/tenons, Cut the profile(curve face) off the shaper? Then, take your pieces and veneer the face cross grain in a vacuum bag. The veneer is easily flushed off a router table. Maybe I'm wayyyyy off base. Been a long day here.

4/2/18       #3: Woven Wood Doors, Part II Failure! ...
Matt Calnen

Why can’t you bandsaw it with your jig, then move the jig to a disk or belt sander to clean up?

4/2/18       #4: Woven Wood Doors, Part II Failure! ...
Matt Calnen

Or, can you bandsaw the waste, then use the shaper? By the way, what type of head are you running in the shaper? I have a segmented helix head for my shaper, it looks like my planer and jointer heads and they cut pretty darn clean in tough grain. I also notice the power feeder. I think this might be better fed under human power to better feel the cut and adjust speed and pressure as necessary. Slide the jig in using the miter slot and a stop, then turn or be in the process of turning.

4/2/18       #5: Woven Wood Doors, Part II Failure! ...
Pete

Assuming there is a bearing on the bottom of the cutter? Downward pressure from the feeder is important on the cut. It will not eliminate that blow out but it gives a cleaner cut to eliminate the chatter. Does the jig allow it? May not even matter. I would hope that the bulk of that material would have been removed by the band saw. Especially on an uphill cut. I still think that grain direction on an uphill cut even after bandsawing close is to much stock to remove in that manner. Maybe hand feed it, engage it to the cutter in the center, going downhill then flip the jig over. feed the other side down hill, no feeder.

4/2/18       #6: Woven Wood Doors, Part II Failure! ...
Kevin Jenness

Call me easily scared, but I don't like seeing the shaper steel sticking out above the head unsupported by an inch or more in that last photo.

4/2/18       #7: Woven Wood Doors, Part II Failure! ...
Kevin Jenness

In one of my early gigs a more experienced hand would wear an apron with a square of plywood marked with a bullseye over his personal equipment while running the shaper. I would want something a lot more substantial given the second picture.

4/2/18       #8: Woven Wood Doors, Part II Failure! ...
door shop guy

Thats pretty crazy to think that setup would yield a good result. Reminds me of one of the Saw movies with the merry go round. lol

4/3/18       #9: Woven Wood Doors, Part II Failure! ...
Peter Gagliardi Member

Well, I am sure many here have more experience than me, but 2 things I see that I would do differently.
1. Bandsaw to within 1/8-1/16" of the finished curve prior to running on the shaper.
2.Use a insert style head instead of the straight knife.

In my experience, a long straight knife head like that attacking that much reverse grain is a recipe for, well..., what you see there.
The insert style heads are much more forgiving and easier milling this type of reverse grain. Smaller chips, smaller individual impact zone.

I think the jig itself is pretty well laid out.
Learning is a daily exercise.
I do enjoy your posts.

4/3/18       #10: Woven Wood Doors, Part II Failure! ...
Mark B Member

Some part of me is wondering if this is all an orchestrated exercise in humor from the OP lol.


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