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Message Thread:

Safe Rooms

5/26/15       
Pat Gilbert

Is there an uptick in demand for this item?

5/27/15       #2: Safe Rooms ...
Larry

Poured concrete, 1/2" steel door!, Wouldn't want anything a bullet could go through. Need 3/4" to stop a 50 cal. How "safe" do you want to be?
Are you going into this business?

5/27/15       #3: Safe Rooms ...
Pat Gilbert

I read somewhere that this has become more popular. Ostensibly worries about unrest on the horizon and now.

5/27/15       #4: Safe Rooms ...
mitchsuber

Website: http://subercustomshutters.com

We just worked at a home that had a interior concrete room in place, and last year did one where the neighbor has a safe room, complete with escape tunnel. Many people are secretive about these things, which makes sense to me. We also have a local company that makes steel rooms, mostly advertised for storm protection, but they certainly would be handy to have if the people get unruly. The company is currently adding another production facility as they are way out on deliveries. I have certainly been entertaining the idea of adding one myself, mainly for storms but also for protection from people as well.

5/28/15       #5: Safe Rooms ...
Larry

New business Pat?
The world is full of crazies but what are the odds you will be able to jump into your safe room if you encounter them?

5/28/15       #6: Safe Rooms ...
Pat Gilbert

Just looking, you apparently don't have a high opinion of the idea? ?The areas where public transfers are the highest are going to be the problem areas. LA, DC, NY, Chicago.

Thanks for the feedback Mitch, anyone else
seen this?

5/28/15       #7: Safe Rooms ...
David R Sochar Member

We did several in the years leading up to the Crash. The better ones had bulletproof out swing doors, with claw-lock jamb latches.

One owner has a company that has security clearances, does a lot of Defense work, so the Homeland Security boys wanted to know where his hidden room was, the locking, the door and other details. The bullet-proof door weighed in at about 240 lbs. without the jamb.

Apparently they approved. The idea was that it was also a good place for a tornado shelter - formed concrete, in the lower level, with fresh air shafts, etc.

The owner finished it off by making it a wine cellar. If it is the 'end', as he would say, at least he could entertain himself.


View higher quality, full size image (1944 X 2592)


View higher quality, full size image (2592 X 1944)

5/28/15       #8: Safe Rooms ...
Larry

I guess it depends on what you are trying to be safe from. I live in Tornado Alley. Every year a tornado comes within a few miles of where I live. There are warnings of a few minutes, generally time enough to get to our basement shelter. Everyone around here has seen what happens when a tornado hits a frame house or mobile home. Nothing left above ground except shattered sticks. A protective room is easily sold here but it isn't likely to be bullet proof. The bullet proof room is probably an easier sell to high dollar folks living in metro areas. Need some very targeted PR to sell to a very few people.

5/28/15       #9: Safe Rooms ...
David R Sochar Member

When I was researching bulletproof cores, the first question was "What do you need to stop?" The second was "How many?" I passed these questions on to the homeowner, and he consulted Homeland Security for answers. How they knew, I don't know.

I forget the specifics, but the 3/4" mineral core would stop an AK 47 at 5 feet, about 20 shells. Or something like that. This project was a wealthy owner, about 25 miles out from the city. His concern was that if there was any sort of attack, he could be on his own for anywhere from 20 minutes to weeks.

Another project involved a more cleverly hidden access door that no one would guess was moveable. The project was done for a wealthy gay couple that was very high profile - wealthy business owners, with lots of flamboyant charity events, sponsored gay pride parades, etc. They were honestly afraid that any of the crazy threats they got from various deranged individuals might just come true at some point. They read a few to me, and it was hard to believe that some people used religion in such a warped way. I could understand the homeowners reasonable 'precautions.'

The best part was they lived right next to the onetime head of the Republican party (also a customer), that later helped craft the ill-fated RFRA law that was so disastrous for the current State legislature. We would do work for both houses, and kept to ourselves and tried to not make waves, but the two parties did not get along. Money isn't everything.....

5/29/15       #10: Safe Rooms ...
David R Sochar Member

Safe Rooms would be a very good niche market to exploit. You would have to do it quietly - no signs in the yard, etc.

The uber wealthy I have worked for had all the bases covered - lots of insurance, lots of security, probably had money stashed all over the place, even offshore, as well cash "buried in the back yard". Yet they all lived in fear of the crazy guy with a gun crossing their path.

For this, they had their own guns, and some training, but it was a wild card over which they had no control, no matter how much money there was, or how well prepared they were. But A Safe Room completed the picture. That would be the selling point - 'you have the insurance, the financial security, the awareness and preparedness - except for a Safe Room'.

Selling fear is now commercially and politically accepted, so there are no cultural barriers anymore.

5/29/15       #11: Safe Rooms ...
Gunnite

I shot through a half inch thick steel plate with a friend's .30 caliber deer rifle loaded with jacketed slugs. One round, one hole.

7.62 x 39 bounced off. A .45 - made a splat on the surface, but no penetration.

A tornado room would be a nice thing to have - but I wouldn't want it in the crawl space or basement - really don't want to have a house on top of my shelter.

5/31/15       #12: Safe Rooms ...
Mel Member

It's actually a legal requirement in Switzerland. Very old houses may get granfathered in, but then the residents of that house have to register with a nearby public one (school or soemthing)

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/bunkers-for-all/995134

5/31/15       #13: Safe Rooms ...
Mel Member

I've been going down the rabbit hole on this one...

Looks like a lot needs to go into those in terms of hermetic yet livable environment, in case of something like biological warefare. Air, water, waste, etc. Then there`s the fact that you are in close quarters with few humans... pack the booze and the prozac.

Anyway... here's a few companies that do it:

http://www.terravivos.com/
http://www.survivalcondo.com/
http://www.hardenedstructures.com/

(Got a chuckle out of the claim: ``Surviving the end of the world in style!``)

Wondered what modern doomsday risks could be, outside of conspiracy and FOX news, and stumbled upon The Center for the Study of Existential Risk (CSER) at the University of Cambridge. Pretty cool, bunch of smart folks trying to quantify and assess validity of possible future risks.

Apocalypse think tank

5/31/15       #14: Safe Rooms ...
Pat Gilbert

The very real threat is the entitlements coming home to roost. There very likely will be blood in the streets.

But that doesn't apply to Hosers.

Except the world economic system is based on fractional reserve banking, when growth no longer occurs it is hard to keep fractional reserve banking going and you have a period of deflation. This applies to the entire western world. This might be a bit of a problem for everyone.

5/31/15       #15: Safe Rooms ...
Mel

"The very real threat is the entitlements coming home to roost. There very likely will be blood in the streets.

But that doesn't apply to Hosers."

I'm laughing right now--French Canadian/ESL background prompted having to look up "entitlements", "roost" and "hosers".

So if I try to understand that paragraph--does it mean "people who think they are privileged will sit on the toilet too long and piss people off. But Canadians will be fine."?

Lol thank you google translate!

5/31/15       #16: Safe Rooms ...
Pat Gilbert

No, it means that retirees will collect about 7x what they paid into medicare. This does not pencil out...

Add on top of that 17 trillion in debt that is at 250 billion per year interest payments at almost 0% interest, will turn into a trillion per year right quick when interest rates are in the same zip-code as they are normally.

Since Canada's finances are in better shape they do not have this problem.

As to the other you need to look up fractional reserve banking.

Then you need to look at what is happening to Japan and why despite massive money printing they still do not have inflation AKA how fractional reserve banking will be effected by this situation.

Of course I doubt you are really interested in this, in which case disregard.

Just to make sure things are totally F'd they are trying to pass TPP, which will seal the deal at least for the US.

Things will get corrected and the US will continue to be the biggest economy in the world, but not without some serious tumult.

5/31/15       #17: Safe Rooms ...
Mel Member

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around external debt...

So from what I gather external debt is a debt of a country not just govt, but also other institutions, towards other countries govt and other institutions?

How is that tabulated and even regulated? Can any institution get a loan from any other so long as they are willing?

5/31/15       #18: Safe Rooms ...
Mel Member

Another question...

In fractional reserve banking, if the bank counts the reserve $amount as it's own, but the deposit is counted as the cusomer's $amount as well--is that money in a sense double counted in the economy?

Are they riding on the fact that their whole clientele will never all purge their accounts on the same day?

5/31/15       #19: Safe Rooms ...
Pat Gilbert

External debt does not have anything to do with what I'm talking about. And it is NOT a problem.

DEFINITION of 'Fractional Reserve Banking'

A banking system in which only a fraction of bank deposits are backed by actual cash-on-hand and are available for withdrawal. This is done to expand the economy by freeing up capital that can be loaned out to other parties. Most countries operate under this type of system.

Also known as "fractional deposit lending".
INVESTOPEDIA EXPLAINS 'Fractional Reserve Banking'

Many U.S. banks were forced to shut down during the Great Depression because so many people attempted to withdraw assets at the same time. Today there are many safeguards in place to prevent such an instance from occurring again, but the fractional-reserve banking system remains in place.

5/31/15       #20: Safe Rooms ...
Mel Member

Dynamics of external debt may not be a problem, but I'm still curious about it....

As for FRB--do you mean safeguards to prevent everyone from withdrawing at the same time? How can one prevent that?

5/31/15       #21: Safe Rooms ...
Pat Gilbert

Can't prevent it. What they have now (in the US) is FDIC to cover any bank defaults. It is a calculated risk that there will not be a run on the bank, this is a tradition that started with gold smiths way back when.

But in reality the FDIC would just print up the money creating inflation that would then dilute the value of all of the money in the US. What they did before was just to issue bank scrip which was an IOU from the bank. FDR saw fit to outlaw scrip which resulted in IIRC 1/3 of the banks going under in 1933.

5/31/15       #22: Safe Rooms ...
Mel Member

The more I look at money the less I understand it.

So I always heard that printing too much money causes inflation. But then I remember reading about 1 trillion dollars being printed to climb out of the recession, without having caused inflation in the following years...

You said something once about velocity of money, and that said printed dollars were not reaching the population if I recall correctly.

I guess if you print a ton of money but don't distribute it it can't really cause inflation? But then it is said to have pulled us out of the recession--how if nobody saw any of it?

More and more confused! But interested :)

6/1/15       #23: Safe Rooms ...
Mel Member

found something good on money growth and inflation variables...

something good

6/1/15       #24: Safe Rooms ...
Pat Gilbert

"The more I look at money the less I understand it."

That is because the overlords don't want you to understand it. It is simple anyone who says or implies otherwise is lying.

"So I always heard that printing too much money causes inflation. But then I remember reading about 1 trillion dollars being printed to climb out of the recession, without having caused inflation in the following years... "

The very definition of inflation is an increase in the money supply.

If the money does not show up in the money supply the inflation does not show up.

Inflation does not occur uniformly at once. It spider webs out as the money finds it's way into the market place from the Federal Reserve Bank. The places that it has shown up is in Real Estate and the Stock Market. Which is why you see the manifestation (increasing prices) of inflation there and not elsewhere as much, except it surely shows up in the grocery store but not as much as Real Estate and the Stock Market.

This is where you see the velocity of money at record lows.

The reason that they say that it has pulled us out of the recession is that they are LYING, and lying benefits their agenda.

The best indicator of this is in the graph below.

You have to wrap your head around the idea that they are disingenuous in the extreme, the whole lot of them, Ds and Rs.

The ONLY thing a politician cares out about is getting reelected, to do that they have to lie. The blame goes to the one looking at us in the mirror.

Part of the lie is that demand keeps the economy going, so all they have to do is print money and that that money will create demand. This is patently not true. As we see now we have the greatest economic inequality in 100 years. The money printing is the sole cause of this as it was in the 1920s.

Breadwinner jobs are defined as jobs that pay more than 50k a year.


View higher quality, full size image (600 X 460)

6/1/15       #25: Safe Rooms ...
Pat Gilbert

Yea that is the crap you shouldn't read.

The fact is that the money supply does not need to change one iota.

The economy left to it's own devises has a natural deflation. This is because technology makes stuff cheaper, Wide screens are cheaper today, phone service is cheaper today not to mention portable with internet access for just a little more than a land line used to cost, cars last twice as long, etc. So the question is why do we have inflation?

6/1/15       #26: Safe Rooms ...
Mel Member

Is velocity of money psychologically dictated by individuals and their beleifs about the state of things?

I'm wondering if pretending to enhance the money supply (by printing but not shelling out) gets people to increase the velocity....

6/1/15       #27: Safe Rooms ...
Pat Gilbert

Confidence has a lot to do with it, but people have more confidence when they have more money.

But mostly it has to do with confidence in investing in business. Which is not happening because the prez has made everyone nervous for good reason.

6/1/15       #28: Safe Rooms ...
Mel Member

At what levels are businessees not being invested in? Like no one expanding/starting them and/or no one is investing/loaning for them?

6/1/15       #29: Safe Rooms ...
Pat Gilbert

Yes the rate is declining, it is hard to find graphs on this, here are a couple.


View higher quality, full size image (485 X 303)


View higher quality, full size image (620 X 432)

6/1/15       #30: Safe Rooms ...
Pat Gilbert

Here is an example of how Japan's money printing has not done them any good.


View higher quality, full size image (598 X 332)

6/1/15       #31: Safe Rooms ...
Larry

That last graph for Japan and the red dot area has mostly to do with the big jump in the sales tax rate.
The trouble with all the "money" pumped into the system was it didn't get used for increasing output but rater for making bank balance sheets come into compliance. Take a look @ all the illegal activity banks have been charged with, fined billions and they don't even blink an eye! Cost of doing business! Where to point the finger for the blame? To those that write the rules & manage the enforcement system, Congress and their similar con-artists in other countries.

6/1/15       #32: Safe Rooms ...
Pat Gilbert

Good point Larry, I wasn't familiar.

The trouble with graphs is there is never a single influence that creates them.

As to the latter, sactly. The Japanese have been doing it for 25 yr, and it has worked the same way here, with endless unintended consequences. None of them good.

6/1/15       #33: Safe Rooms ...
Mel Member

I feel like there's a million reasons money is close to untrackable. e aft

For example--drugs. How do you even track drug money? Assume only bikers/mafia are after it? Pretty sure it's not a coincidence that big powers go after Afghanistan... USSR was after it hardcore and failed, before the USA. Is it really to correct their ways/protect the nation?

If that was the case there would be a thousand vile ways to go after... why seemingly insignificant Afghanistan?

I smell poppies....

2/23/22       #34: Safe Rooms ...
Marcus Reid

Many people are secretive about these things, which makes sense to me. We also have a local company that makes steel rooms, mostly advertised for storm protection, but they certainly would be handy to have if the people get unruly.

 

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