ok. How do you price material cost of mouldings such as casing, base, crowns, and such??
Do you go by finished size and factor no waste??
Or do you have a waste factor on top of finished width and what percentage average do you use??
Curious on how others figure out how they come up with their material costs.
It is pretty simple - track your time and the material, add a markup for material, then add your overhead, then profit. You should already have a shop rate for labor that includes the overhead and profit. So then it would include the man hours times the shop rate, plus the material costs - all materials that went into making the molding - with your material markup on to that.
I tracked molding production in a shop for every day for 5 years - millions of l/f - and got labor values to three decimal points for each step in the process as well as waste factors for every pattern and species. I could predict the payback on machine changes and tooling modifications.
Know all your costs. Someone has to pay for that waste factor, correct?
Depends on if you only do wide profiles, or if you do small quarter rounds as well. On only wides, I would order straight line ripped stock from my supplier, then you have a fixed material price, basically no waste. If you all widths, then probably 20% waste. Maybe you have a straight line already, but can't tell what you are really doing from your short post.
So I currently take finished size and add 35% for waste for most woods. Some knotty woods I might add another 10-15% extra to the waste factor.
Then I take and figure out my material cost alone form that. I have a fixed cost then for ripping, cutting ends, running through moulder, sanding and then bundling for shipping. then after those costs are added to the material cost I put on my profit mark up and that will depend on size and end user I am selling too.
I was not sure how if others were figuring a waste factor on top of finished width and what percentage other use for waste factor.
Everything I bring in S2S usually no rip. I like to straight line all my stuff and rip to width my self. Seems like it is what cheaper for me to do that myself than to order in pre-ripped if under 10,000lft .
I created my own moulding calculator similar to the one on woodweb.
I've tracked waste for a lot of jobs. I find I need twice the area in material ordered as the area of finished molding of random length. I.E. a waste factor of 50%. For runs needing all wide and only one length, waste would be more. Ocationally a pattern will be such that it can be diagonally resawn, saves some material, takes labor & equipment.
First is how much over finished width you are ripping. For us, this varies by thickness and run size.
Next is how much, on average, you are ripping off. The wider the rip, the more likely you are to lose a larger percentage of material. For instance, on a 1" wide rip you are not going to ever lose more than one inch on the whole board, spread out over 3-4-6-10 pieces. However, if you are ripping 4", even if you only pick 4.5-5" material, you are wasting that over one piece/LF.
Next is dependent on species/grade. For us, on moulding, it's basically species, as we use all Sel+Btr/FAS. Walnut has a much higher waste factor than Ash, etc. Of course, if you are doing "product of x" this is not a factor.
If you are doing random length, that's it. But as Larry implied, if certain specified lengths are required you also have to account for that somehow. We don't have a real good formula for that, it's more of a gut feeling. Thankfully that doesn't happen often.
"If you all widths, then probably 20% waste"
rich c. is incredibly good, with perfect suppliers.
My suppliers aren't nearly that good. If we order a unit of say maple, spec'd as random width, 12' & longer, FAS, hit or miss 15/16. FAS does not mean defect free! Getting hit/miss means their planer ate most of the dirt and we can better see any defects so we can SL & rip for max yield @ the desired quality level. Things that will reduce yield and always be present: crook, long end splits, wane, knots, stain, twist, .... There will be very few of these but there will always be some. Lets say we are going to make 2 moldings out of a 6" board. Under ideal conditions you will get this: 3/8" SL loss, two kerfs @3/16, blank over size by 3/16 x 2, the drop maybe 3/8 = total 1 5/8 out of your 6" board. That is 27% and we haven't taken any loss for whatever boards had defects that reduced their yield. Or for boards that couldn't be optimized as well as my 6" example. Or for orders that have mostly wide moldings. Or wild boards that curl too much coming off the saw. Or for end trimming, if you do that. Lots of ORs!
I'm left to conclude that my operation and suppliers aren't nearly as good as you are, OR?
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