|Home » Forums » Business » Message||Login|
You are not logged in. Consider these WOODWEB Member advantages:
How man hours are related to Production1/26
I'm trying to get an idea from a larger cabinet shop, meaning 6-10 in production, concerning how the man hours are spent in different parts of the production process building face frame cabinets without a CNC machine. We use a slide saw and a double line bore machine to process panels. How much time in a percentage do you have in these areas. Building face frames, panel processing, and assembly of face frames to boxes, also installing hardware(slides, hinges, drawer boxes and doors) This hardware installation is grouped into one process after the cabinets are stained or painted and lacquered. Any input would be appreciated, thanks.
-You can improve anywhere else you want (faster cycle times on the cnc, better assembly techniques, etc), but if you don't find a way to get more than the 13 cabinets worth of parts through your spray booth (perhaps outsource some finishing work even?), you will not make more than the money you make on 13 cabinets per day, and you may spend a lot of money making 'phantom' improvements in other locations and wonder why your bottom line has not improved after making all those changes.
I hope that helps :-)
Let me re-phrase that question:
What things do CNC machines do well and what percentage are those things of all the things you have to do?
Nested base manufacturing seems hands down the best way to cut out a box and make it easy to assemble. What percentage of your problems are getting the box cut out & assembled? If you could make these costs go to zero what would you have left?
In my business getting a decision and commitment out of a customer seems to take a lot more time than the boxes do.
I am doing the same analysis, but to determine a different decision. You are trying to see how much time Nested Base will save over Line Bore style. We are trying to see the difference between CNC (pod and rail) over Nested Base. The big advantages of both over standard building techniques is 'finish assembly', and cabinet assembly. With CNC you get all drawer glide holes, hinge mounting plate holes, and cabinet assembly holes (so your parts line up perfectly). Can you imagine holding a drawer glide up in the cabinet and screwing it in to it's pre-drilled hole, and it's perfectly square, and exact distance from the front edge? Please tell nested base users, is it really that much faster than pod and rail? Would I save $1k labor per kitchen?
We went from a pod and rail to a cnc router. Just material jockeying, is amazing, the $ saved, wow ! But, and big but---- we were cutting on a slider and no, the ptp was not downloadable. and with no beam saw we could never stack cut and gain the speed.
The cnc router is screen to machine. Honestly, the software is the king and the solution.
As per the 1k a kitchen savings ? Ya, just for the fact, it all comes off the cnc, we draw it, it cuts it. The guides are not figured out yet, but jigs make it fly on face frame jobs.
Commercial casework stands up daily. We finally bought an auto dowel machine to punch the holes and load the dowels to keep up.
As per methods for the OP. I would expect with a good shop lay out and well trained guys, manual cut, a medium sized kitchen four guys- cabinets standing and all door blanks ready to glue up- day 1. Doors built and sanded day 2. Casework stained and completely ready to ship on day 4.
All considering cut lists, guides, hinges, etc all in and lists all worked out, period.
Look @ this video-
And this one-
We work it all out on paper now, even the complicated crap and it flies out the doors.
Can you time and expect excellent results in manual shops, yes.
Sorry, I reread your post and sort of hijacked it in a different direction.
-I hope this is more helpful.
I want to give an example for comparison. A large M. Bath. 8 sheets 3/4" maple ply interiors, 3 sheets 1/2" backs. It just took us 1-1/2 hr to cut on a slider, 1-1/2 hr to CNC (bar code labels, and code downloaded to the machine, Confirmat/dowel construction), 1 hr to band. 4 hours total ready to assemble. drawer glide holes, hinge mounting plate holes, shelf holes, construction holes, all dead nuts accurate. Hard to imagine cutting backs on a router, but I guess... This adds up to 18.5 min/sheet processing, ready for assembly. How might these numbers compare to the same job on a router?
Hi Jay and other responders.
The responses are appreciated. What I'm looking for are % times for the different functions. Just estimates. This info can only come from a larger shop that tracks the individual functions. In our shop currently we track total man hours for a given job. I've not yet broken it down but will begin that analysis. I've always been a guy to ask for information in conjunction with my own investigations. I've read True 32 and it's helpful but most of our work is Face Frame. In addition I know things change in larger operations. I understand bottlenecks and will continue to address that area (finishing).
You don't need to be a big shop to track detailed time data. We're a 3-man shop and each guy has an app on his phone that he uses to clock in and out of each task. I can create focused reports to see exactly how we spent our time. We use the Toggl app but there are many others.
Does the time to produce a product vary depending on who is producing it?
If so is it because some people are naturally faster or your manufacturing processes are too democratic?
What to do,
If you use a merit pay system and one person is paid $10 and another $8 you should expect to see a $100 task take the $10 person 10 hours and the $8 person 12.5 hours. If both employees are paid the same over a long period you should be able to expect the same task to take them both the same amount of time.
1 hour for all on the router, max 2 the most. Return onion skin so nothing slips around. It's running fast. 1 hour max at the doweller and 1 hour @ the bander. That's 3 total.
I just cut your walk from slider to the ptp out, and walking to the slider is the same as the router, but we did not have to trim cut and move the fences, all the jockeying around and picking up and mis-cuts are gone. All of it. Yes, I operated the slider and ptp for years, yes sometimes I would forget to cut a shelf, or stretcher, especially on a large job.
I cut 37 sheets of melamine on the router in 18" depth of various lengths for a shelving job @ a hospital for an IT Dept. Took 2 hours 17 minutes. I ran it @ night after the operator went home. I wanted an exact time. I used 5x8 sheets. I saved the time on not squaring off the nest and dumped the off-fall onto a skid to get out of my way. Used a vacuum lift to load. I put the bunk @ the prime location to the router.
Evan, I like the idea of tracking time on an app. all of my employees have smart phones as well. I searched for the Toggl app and didn't see it. What did you search for to find it. Can you explain more about how the app works and you use it?
On Android I searched toogl, it was in the first one in the search list. Looks good, and I will start using it Monday.
For those of us who are having a difficult time searching for "toogl"...
It is called "Toggl". When I did a google search, it made the correction for me without me realizing it. I had to look a couple of times to learn it has two g's, not two o's. :-)
Now, that I have found the website (toggle.com), how is anyone using this?
Also, it is free. What, if any, are the downsides?