Woodworking Business

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

What is your applicant-screening process?

4/29/15       
Mel Member

Anyone very procedural? Creative? Going on guts?

Results of the method?

Thanks :)

4/30/15       #2: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
Paul Downs

I give everyone a test, and if they score 100 I continue the interview with questions. If we like the answers, we have a shop try-out day. We've developed different tests for different positions. This has worked well for us.

4/30/15       #3: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
Jim Member

I mainly hire for attitude. I can teach anyone anything if they have a gung ho / can do attitude. I look for people that want to work, not just get a paycheck.

I also look to see they have questions about what and how we do it. The more questions the better as it shows a mind that is curious.

The next thing I look for is speed. I do a couple of tests that I think looks for speed in the applicants walking and hands.

It is not a perfect process but it works for me.

4/30/15       #4: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
David R Sochar Member

When I used to get lots of applicants, I handed them an application and a math test. If they protested the test ("I didn't know there would be a test!"), I told them they could take it home and return it later. Most often it came back in a different handwriting. Sometimes it was two or more styles of handwriting. Often wrong answers, even with the outside help.

If they asked for a pen or pencil for the application, their fate was sealed. I would happily hand them a pencil and tell them I had never hired a person that applied for a job that did not think to bring their own pen or pencil. Proving my point, they would take the application and fill it out.

I have learned over the years to never settle. Attitude and aptitude and intelligence are required. I can teach, but I can't abide the basic shortcomings. The people I have worked with since adopting 'the best I can get' are all excellent employees, good people and very competent and productive woodworkers that I am proud to spend my time with. Really ups the quality of life.

4/30/15       #5: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
Mel Member

This is all music to my ears! (in a text format sort of way)

So I'm definitely agreeing with the math test. Our job is math--I've been digging through high school geometry basics often enough to make it count. Let alone the constant arithmetic.

Side question--I've been put to the challenge to find a good set of resumes, being told that not many people apply with the necessary skills in our area. I figured they weren't selling it well enough, but I'm starting to eat my words. Put an ad up for our town--one single resume. Put an ad up on the Vancouver website, knowing a lot of people commute from here to the city to work--nothing at all.

Wondering if the pool is actually that small? Or if I need to get more creative in finding people?

4/30/15       #6: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
David Waldmann  Member

Website: vermonthardwoods.com

We start out with a math test. Very basic - I guess 6th grade? I haven't been to school for a while so I don't really know. Fairly simple add, subtract and multiplication of whole numbers, and some addition of fractions with different denominators. We also have them do some basic measuring to ensure they can read a tape measure.

We used to get tons of inappropriate applicants until we added "Pre Employment Drug Testing Required". If you show up, you passed the test...

Once all that is done, if the work history looks decent (and checks out) we interview to try to get a feel for what they're like. I'd rather hire an unskilled person with a good attitude than the Craft Ninja who's a know-it-all.

Continuing the interview while doing a tour of the facility gives you a good idea about ones' mental abilities because of the conversations that will develop. It doesn't matter if they're skilled or not, you will be addressing situations that come up in a real world situation rather than those staged scenarios the gurus promote.

Just remember, once you've found the right person you've just begun. And don't hesitate to make the cut quickly if things don't work out.

4/30/15       #7: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
Mel Member

"I'd rather hire an unskilled person with a good attitude than the Craft Ninja who's a know-it-all "

We have one of those ninjas. It results in stubborn resistance to SOP and interrupting others for tidbits of "knowledge" sharing. High rated annoyance factor for sure! Luckily no one indulges him for too long.

5/1/15       #8: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
Paul Downs

The pool of woodworkers is shrinking, at the same time that the pool of people who could benefit from stable employment with good wages, doing satisfying work with their hands, grows ever larger. Reaching these two populations involves different tactics. For woodworkers: classified ads will produce some resumes. Pay attention to the information you put in your ad. Are you specific about the working conditions? Wages? Are you willing to train? Can you identify local trade schools with suitable training? Can you ask your current workers for recommendations (this can work very well if your workers are happy, not so well if they aren't.) For the general public: you will have to be willing to train. You will have to be willing to announce that you are willing to train. Then you will have to train. Can you do that? Who will do it? What will they do? You'd better have an answer ready, or all the resumes you get will be wasted.

I've been lucky enough to have access to a good local trade school (Stevens Tech) and have picked up some excellent workers through recommendations from current employees. Craigs List has been more of a crap shoot - I got resumes, and many of the workers were probably trainable, but fortunately I always found a good applicant when I advertised.

Just for chuckles, I've put a copy of the ad I run below.

Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

PDCHelp_Wanted_2015.pdf

5/2/15       #9: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
Mel Member

Paul, expect a fruit basket, a resume, and a sample of my algebra for woodworking, sent from Canada, shortly ;)

Seriously, that is a really great ad. I think it would scare an idiot, and rope in a smart person.

I have placed a similar ad, and up to now have 2 resumes. But the two are exceptionally good. Somehow tho the boss-pants seems to want bulk.

Interesting tidbit--went on a job hunting spree a couple months ago and got a response for every single resume I handed out. Turns out there isn't a whole lot of skilled folks out there.

The pickle: took a survey for the joinery program at the school where I had went, and asked the survey taker a whole bunch of questions. Turn out only 22% of grads had long-term placement.

Wondering what is happening between people studying joinery and not getting jobs, and shops not finding skilled workers.

Did take your advice and contacted the school for resumes. Thanks :)

5/2/15       #10: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
Pat Gilbert

The test thing is ok, but what really counts is the resume. You have to check the references.

At the end of the day it is the metric that shows what the person does. Not what he says but what he does.

5/2/15       #11: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
David Waldmann  Member

Website: vermonthardwoods.com

BTW, we require that the test be done on the premises, no calculator. We also ask that they show their work and let them know that the correct answers are not necessarily required as long as they did the problem right and demonstrate basic math comprehension.

What the test shows you that a reference doesn't, is the actual comprehension skills they have. I'm sure we've all heard about the person with dyslexia who worked for years in a library, or magazine publishing company, or some such placed where reading is a requirement, and nobody knew. They had found ways to get by. Kudos to them for working around their disability, but think how much lost productivity there had to have been.

Yes, we have a bar code scanner to cut our frames. But there are situations every single day where you have to be able to read a tape measure. And that calculator? It only works as well as the operator. You need to recognize that when you thought you added 24.25 and 36.125 the answer is NOT 38.55. It's amazing how many people think it's right because the calculator told them so...

5/2/15       #12: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
Econ 101

Hey, Pat -

The problem with references is how few people will respond with accurate information, or any information at all. Lawyers, liability and all that stuff. I stopped providing anyone any information on any former employee over 30 years ago. You want a reference? Sorry, we don't give them. The only thing I can do is provide starting and ending dates of employment. Other than that, there's nothing I can tell you.

Anyone who will actually give a reference has probably been instructed to say nothing negative, which makes the reference worthless. Making any comment at all is nuts.

It's just not worth the potential legal trouble should negative or less-than-positive or even neutral words that can be attributed to you become an issue. And once you say the words, they're out of your control.

Your comments will likely get noted (accurately or not) in someones file. If an unsuccessful applicant sues the guy you gave the reference to and his lawyer subpoenas the guy's records, then there you are -- a potential additional defendant in some BS suit that will cost you thousands to get rid of. No thanks. It never happened to me because I didn't give references, but it has happened to thousands of employers over the years.

Dave -

Anyone who can't add those two numbers in their head with no calculator and come up with the correct answer wouldn't receive any further consideration from me for any job, woodworking-related or otherwise.

It's amazing how many mathematical illiterates there are out there. Thanks, NEA. Wonderful job. Good thing most checking accounts are on-line and they don't have to balance their accounts themselves -- they couldn't do it.

Speaking generally, there are a lot of court cases over the last 20-30 years that deal with employment testing. You have to be very careful lest you become the object of some discrimination lawsuit because some moron was rejected due to whatever test you happened to use. In general, as much as I hate lawyers, I'd recommend consulting one who specializes in labor/employment issues before using ANY test at all. It's a veritable minefield.

5/2/15       #13: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
Pat Gilbert

Econ 101

I hear you, but even the fact that they lasted more than 3 months tells me something.

Cabinet shop owner are more amenable than bigger companies in this regard. What I used to do was call after hours as there is no secretary there. In which case the owners are more open about giving information.

Not to mention that they are sympathetic to this problem as they have the same problem.

I wonder how many of these sort of things actually turn into lawsuits? As usually a lawyer wants to go after deep pockets, to which the cabinet shops have cleverly got shallow pockets.

At any rate thanks nanny state for protecting us on this too.

BTW from what I read the NEA has been around before Carter and was actually brought into full bloom under a dubious character named John Dewey. Who has been making America illiterate since the late 1800s.

The articles Tim Schultz posts from the machinist magazine of the late 1800s shows an amazing literacy rate. Today we have infinitely better tools to communicate, yet the literacy rate appear to be much lower. What's up with that?

5/2/15       #14: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
David R Sochar Member

Regarding math and literacy: I once had an applicant that complained about the math test. His remark was "If I knew I would ever need math for a job, I wouldn't a cut so many math classes. It ain't my fault for not knowing no math, they never done told me at school."

This is a small town, and I knew the match teachers, and I knew they do all they can to communicate to all their students the need for good math skills.

The applicant wound up the interview by stating that I should hire him since he was "cheated" by the schools, and it was my job to make up for the problems the schools created. He was dead serious. I told him he could keep the pencil he borrowed.

So much for personal responsibility.

5/2/15       #15: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
Jim Member

Concerning the math thing, I have met several people that thought 1/8 was bigger than 1/4 because the number on the bottom was bigger and when you added the two numbers together (1+8=9) you had a larger number.

I solved this problem by posting for each assembly a example of the screw with the steps of the job. So they have an actual screw to compare it to when they start. In my area, Ferguson, there are many people who do not know anything about tools, measurements and math. So I have figured out how to change my instruction processes by having a book with the instructions for each assembly. Once they have repeated it a few times, they have learned what to do and no longer need the instructions.

Same with my CNC operation. I have examples of the different bits posted with what they are used for and examples of the different woods used. When I have someone new, they have to check the chart as well as their instruction book till they learn. This has reduced the mistakes made while they are learning and when they are starting to go on their own.

5/2/15       #16: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
Tim Schultz

Pat,

The answer to your question about what happened to literacy in this country is simple.

Our parents (and their's before them) grew up under the great depression. Our children's parents grew up under blacklite posters. Duh.......

5/2/15       #17: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
Pat Gilbert

Yup that is an ostensible answer, but that doesn't quite fly. By virtue of the fact that we still had to do well enough to graduate. As did our parents. Graduating today is considerably easier than in the past, even then those that don't graduate are around 20%. In some cities it is pushing 40%

I am not buying your theory.

Seriously what was the time period that magazine was from.

5/3/15       #18: What is your applicant-screening pr ...
Pat Gilbert

One other thing about this subject. When hiring for attitude hire up beat people. Angry people do angry things, cheerful people do cheerful things, nervous people are filled with anxiety, bored people don't focus. IOW hire the cheerful people. They produce more are more honest, learn quicker, try to make things better.

Not to say that is easy in my experience it is fewer than 5% of the people who apply but I have always found them to be gold.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)