Woodworking Business

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Change Order Procedure/Docs

6/11/15       
Matt

I'd like to hear about different companies' change order procedures.

We are a completely custom manufacturer that has an EXTREMELY busy Summer season because of a high volume of school business. Changes after release for production are common and we don't really have a well organized and systematic approach to handling them.

We are trying to develop something better and one of our folks obviously found a document on the interwebs that does just that, but it is SO DAMn COMPLICATED that no one wants to even talk about it, much less use it. I'm thinking it really just comes down to an addition, a change, or a deletion, and how the whole process is going to affect delivery time and cost....cost of course coming from additional materials and processing/labor time.

I'm all ears for some of you folks's usual common sense and good advice.

Thanks,
Matt

6/11/15       #2: Change Order Procedure/Docs ...
Pat Gilbert

What ever system you use do not, do not, do not, do any work without a signed one.

No matter how much they plead

6/12/15       #3: Change Order Procedure/Docs ...
cabinetmaker

So after all these years and advice, I did 1200.00 worth of work in phase one, of a small job, from the original contracted amount and the refusal to pay has happened, because "we just did not think it was going to be this much."

So in phase 2 and 3 there were change orders written for every penny and I was asked why I was sticking it to them several times.
I told them - " You are the types that see it so important and get it excited that it has to be done now, and yet it's less important when it is done." (A hair salon job)

I stuck every damn change in their a...

My advice is don't do a thing but the original contracted work that is signed off on and don't budge on doing extra work until agreements (estimate/proposals) are signed and dated. A judge will ask if it is their signature about twice, then award you.

6/13/15       #4: Change Order Procedure/Docs ...
Dropout Member

Remember the Call girl principle.

The value of the service rendered drops drastically after the service has been rendered.

6/13/15       #5: Change Order Procedure/Docs ...
Matt

Yes it really does come down to signatures. But I don't know about yall but sometimes sigs don't mean crap around here. Customer will sign/approve anything... I had a customer tell me a few weeks ago that he doesn't have time to check drawings....

6/13/15       #6: Change Order Procedure/Docs ...
Puzzleman Member

If he doesn't have time to check drawings, Then it is not very important to him. People will always make time for what is important to them.

If he doesn't want to inspect the plan before it starts then he will have to pay extra for his lack of supervision of the project.

Maybe you can make it important by charging a big charge for changes. After enough of those, hopefully they will get their act together or you make more money.

6/13/15       #7: Change Order Procedure/Docs ...
Alan F.

This is the key concept to some

Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

original_contract_and_change_orders_2.pdf

6/13/15       #8: Change Order Procedure/Docs ...
Pat Gilbert

That is funny.

I'm pretty sure Mr. T gets them signed?

6/13/15       #9: Change Order Procedure/Docs ...
Larry

I know general contractors that figure little to no profit in bids for certain types of work and make up for it with all the change orders.
I obviously haven't been doing it right or that would be my boat.
It becomes a tricky issue, but W/O a change order you are at risk. It is interesting how quickly they can get approved when all work stops on their project until you've got one.

6/13/15       #10: Change Order Procedure/Docs ...
Alan F.

We were talking about size of change order to base contract the other day. We have a small $1,100 favor job that we just got a 36K change order for some extra work they want 2 months later so as a percentage that's the largest increase we have had.

We had one go from 480k to 3.7M 10 years ago. The project manager from 10 years ago is the one that sent me that picture.

6/13/15       #11: Change Order Procedure/Docs ...
Alan F.

Keep a log of change orders and the status. Send the log each time you send a CO out.

Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

Change_Order_Log_2.pdf

6/13/15       #12: Change Order Procedure/Docs ...
Alan F.

For items that the PM's can estimate we use a spreadsheet like shown.

Depending on the customer requirements depends on how much detail they get.

For people that want lots of detail we have machine rates with operator cost included which covers OH GC's or owners don't "allow".

The more detail you consider the more it helps set the correct price. Something you would have sold for $500 when you were onsite or before you went into production might be $2,500 to do now.

A-



Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

Sample_Change_Order_Template_Labor_and_Material.pdf

6/19/15       #13: Change Order Procedure/Docs ...
Mel

I ran into this problem in a different industry. Perhaps it applies?

I was a contractor building stages. Time and time again, the client would say, "I want the stage right here". They would WATCH US BUILD IT, then when it was done, ask, "I'd like to have the stage "over here instead".

For anyone that has seen a stage come together, there is a simple thing you can notice, is that to move it, you need to deconstruct it, and built it again.

So same bill, minus the transport.

I think it comes down to paying attention to what exactly it will cost you to change things. No freebies, no surcharges either.

6/19/15       #14: Change Order Procedure/Docs ...
Larry

Mel, What it will cost you to change it isn't just direct costs. What about your other clients that expect their project to still be on schedule.

6/21/15       #15: Change Order Procedure/Docs ...
mike

I cannot answer the documentation question but going by my NKBA contract I would advise several things. First our contract says that every change order is billed and due immediately, apart from the contact terms. This gives urgency to the situation. 2nd, no changes made without a signed document and price. If its many small items you could give the installer or Forman, 3 part carbonless forms to keep in the truck and at least document the scope of work, price or agreed upon rate and signatures. Maybe you even need two signatures if its a commercial job. Then make sure they get processed quickly.

My feeling is that most people are not out to cheat us, they just don't know costs and don't like surprises. Its our job to be professional and help them navigate these changes before and after they happen. Lastly, if its a residential client , you can gain some goodwill by absorbing the occasional small change order. I still write it up and list a price but will make it $0.00 in the total line. Usually this is a $25 to $100 thing and may be part of a larger additional work/credits final bill. I once kind of ticked off a good client because of a $50 change order and since they had spent near 50k I can understand why they asked about it. mike


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)