Woodworking Business

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Clients are experts

8/17/17       
Pinetree Furniture Makers

Is it me or am I one of the lucky ones that have clients that are experts on pricing cabinetry. When I price a job they come back with " Oh that's to high ,can't you do any better?" So I use to take as omg I'm way to high I'm gonna lose the job. So now i enrolled in their school and have learn all they want is to know they got a deal . So raise the price a little then if they use their line I drop it little by little until they bite. Then their happy an most of the time I end up with a little extra so I'm happy. Now noted I don't go crazy on inflating the price so I lose it but just enough. Do you guys have these experts also?

8/17/17       #2: Clients are experts ...
chipbored

Yes I have price experts too. Although I have always thought it's a dangerous game pumping up the price and dropping it so the client thinks they have one. Even thought you are coming out of it with a win there may be flow on effects that you aren't realising.

When you get your referalls from that person, they are most likely telling the friend the way you did the deal. So you have locked yourself into that cycle as the next person is going to do the same thing.

It may also reflect on your perceived transparency with the referrals.

When dealing with privates I try and relate to them. They are dropping a lot of money on a kitchen and want to know they are getting a fair deal for the product they have asked for....fair enough, I do too when I purchase! If they expect and more than that, they can find another cabinet maker.

For the builders, It's more about getting the job done right, on time and going above and beyond if there is a problem. Sometimes they need to be reminded that a high level of service costs money to offer and although it's not a VISIBLE cost they can see the value in immediately, they end up being more profitable with reliable trades behind them.

Don't get wrong. I'm not a martyr. I read a customer, work out what type of spender they are and price as high as I think I can get, I think that is part of being a good businessman. If the price is above the clients budget, there must be a compromise made to reduce the price, change a material, reduce volume.

We inevitably lose out on jobs, often from factors out of our control. So when the sun is shining we must make hay.

8/17/17       #3: Clients are experts ...
rich c.

Wait till a couple of your customers compare prices. The one that paid what you estimated, and the one that paid what you played around with. Good way to ruin a reputation. I only lower the bid if they start removing accessories, or reducing the number of cabinets.

8/18/17       #4: Clients are experts ...
D Brown

Over the years I heard wow that's high,
my response is to ask " compared to what"
and when they tell you big box has them for less you then can explain that we are not comparing apples to apples and if they would rather have the lower quality materials and hardware prolly better get in on that big sale. There is no sale on custom work. Like a few of the others I learned to design with the budget in mind.
Imho pricing higher than real is a sketchy scenario at best and does little to help your credibility.

8/18/17       #5: Clients are experts ...
Tony

When I get "can't you do any better" I often say "yes, I can make it higher"

8/18/17       #6: Clients are experts ...
Charles Member

QUOTE: 'When I get "can't you do any better" I often say "yes, I can make it higher".

That sounds like a Will Sampson joke. :-)

FYI: Will Sampson: Editor, FDMC magazine/Woodworking Network

8/19/17       #7: Clients are experts ...
Jim

It comes down to what the customer is willing to spend and perceived value. I bid everything through cabinet vision, materials, labor, overhead and profit. It took time to do set up and work through the process. I don't know your market niche but when I do a bid the numbers don't lie and our based on my fixed cost.

All the best.

8/19/17       #8: Clients are experts ...
Pinetree Furniture Makers

Rich C if you see I noted that we do not raise the price that much . We do pure custom work so the prices would rarely be same but it would be with in that amount that we raised it. We know our customers talk price to each other but they are looking for a company that will do job right and if something needs to be done such as a bad drawer slide, etc. will come back and back thier work.

8/19/17       #9: Clients are experts ...
Pinetree Furniture Makers

Jim, we are starting to do that with some of our work that we can use the program I have. I would like to look into a new program that would allow me to use it for more custom work and this way we know what are number s have to be . I will have to do my home work on what would work for us.

8/20/17       #10: Clients are experts ...
Adam

My first boss had this line for the impatient or cost conscious client.

There are 3 variables you can have 2 out of the 3.

1. cost
2. timeliness
3. quality

If you want a low cost, high quality product we will do it on our schedule. Essentially when we have a lull.

If you want a high quality product tomorrow. It will be expensive. It screws up our schedule and we have to work overtime.

If you want a low quality product go somewhere else. You can't pay us enough to do poor work.

8/20/17       #11: Clients are experts ...
Mark B Member

You have to do whatever you feel works for your market but I am kind of with the others that say I never chop my price. If we need to get the number lower we need to eliminate elements of the project.

I think its a dangerous precedent to set with customers to give them the power to get you to drop your number even if its a false "hoo-doo" that was setup ahead of time. This business is no different than any retail outlet. Its not a car dealership.

Its sad the large retail outlets and online retailers have given the retail consumer so much power. With 30 day price match guarantees, zero question return policies, and so on it, in my opinion, has made for a very difficult environment for anyone operating in the low-mid-range market and even up into the higher end.

8/22/17       #12: Clients are experts ...
Derrek

I normally have a retail price and the current offer with the total below.
When they say "can you do any better" I point to the top number and say, "yeah I could get this number, the best you can do is this one" as I point to the discounted price.

My other one is "what were you expecting?" and they always seem to be about 20% below what I quoted them. I then tell them, "just about everybody is off by about 20%, so your guess was just about right.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)