Woodworking Business

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Selling to design/install shops

8/21/19       
Bob Member

I have been designing, building, and installing custom kitchens for the last couple years. I have found that the design/sell and install portions of the project are not very profitable for me, but my shop time is. I have been thinking about the idea of approaching a couple different design and install showrooms with a sample cabinet, design, and bid to see if there is a place for me in their line-up of brands. These are places that would carry kraft-made, merrilat, and often an amish alternative. My question is, does anyone know what the typical markup percentage is for these brands? I'm trying to gauge ahead of time if my brand/price/quality would be profitable for such a business.

8/22/19       #2: Selling to design/install shops ...
the google

we sell through a lot of dealers.

40% is the industry target mark-up. i'm not sure how many achieve this but i would say 25%-40% would be your mark-up range.

8/22/19       #3: Selling to design/install shops ...
Bob Member

Thanks for the helpful response. So if I understand correctly, If I sold a kitchen at $15,000 the dealer would want to sell it to the customer for 21,000? (15,000x1.4) Sounds impossible for a small shop.

8/22/19       #4: Selling to design/install shops ...
the google

bob - that should be worst-case.

our local dealers don't typically get anything beyond 30%, but yes, it seem like a lot for the design and sale. once again, we feel like we're in the wrong business!!!

8/22/19       #5: Selling to design/install shops ...
Pat Gilbert

FWIW

15,000 / .6 = 25,000

IMO you have this backwards, installation is maybe 10%

design = sales another 10%

With low to no overhead.

YMMV

8/23/19       #6: Selling to design/install shops ...
MarkB Member

The answer is not that if YOU sold a kitchen for 15K the dealer would be at 21K.. the answer is that if you WERE TO SELL a kitchen at 15K, but absolved yourself of all the design, customer interaction, questions, changes, collecting and paying sales tax, delivery, after transaction BS, on and on.. you would ship that kitchen for 9K and wash your hands.

Whether or not your distributors would cut you free of all that headache is another issue.

The simple fact of the matter is the retail customer transaction accounts for 50% of the cost of the sale easily. Your time meeting with them, working through ideas, shipping drawings and emails, answering the phone, dealing with changes, delivering, after sales BS, is likely far more than 50% of the cost o that transaction. But the retail shop fools themselves into the notion that thats just what you have to do.

Take the 40-50% hit, enforce your contract, and stay in your shop and make. The 50% "hit" to the retail outlet is a gift.

8/24/19       #7: Selling to design/install shops ...
Pat Gilbert

Meanwhile the overhead never sleeps

8/26/19       #8: Selling to design/install shops ...
Larry Schweitzer Member

One place that we have long sold to adds 25% for the sale only, no design, install, follow up, shipping etc. Another that operates as more of a retailer adds 50% +frt. (33% of the sale price + frt.) When we sold furniture at wholesale, what they got for a mark up was hard to tell. We provided all the sales brochures, paid part of the advertising and provided "List" price sheets that were obscene so they could offer huge "discounts." They determined what the "List" price was. The retail furniture business was full of shady operators. Maybe it has improved?


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)