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Subject: Re: Trying to use pre-finished ply. interiors

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Message Thread:

Trying to use pre-finished ply. interiors

12/28/15       
John

Hello,
We are trying to work the bugs out of using pre-finished plywood interiors using a face frame construction method. Right now our finish room is a major bottle neck so we're trying to get as many cabinets as possible to by pass that area. We would still have all of the face frames go in there ahead time to get finished and then come back out into the building area to be applied. Now since the frames are finished we do not want to face nail the frames on the cabinet so this means all frames would have to be clamped on, correct? Also, for flush ends we are experimenting with 1/4'' scribes and then applying a 1/4'' veneered skin. This would still allow the entire cabinet to be pre-finished but then it would still have to go back to the finish room for a final coat due to the flush end. I believe all angled cabinets would have to be built first and then go into the finish room with the interior being taped off to prevent over spray? I believe a lot of shops are using pre-finished ply. or melamine interiors and we're just looking for tips to make things go smoother.

Thanks

12/28/15       #2: Trying to use pre-finished ply. int ...
KAP

John, since you're adding a panel on the end for end-runs, you can use pocket holes, dado's and glue... the pocket holes are covered by the skin, and you don't see the pocket holes for unfinished ends...

Most use pre-finished nowadays because the level of finish is more than acceptable than what most shops can produce finish-wise and it much more economical from a materials/labor POV...

If you want or still feel it's necessary, you can still even add more coats and just consider the pre-finish as your first two coats...

12/28/15       #3: Trying to use pre-finished ply. int ...
Mike Fuson

John,
I switched to prefinished about 4 years ago and it was a great move. Here is a little info on how I do it, maybe it will work for you or give you an idea of your own.
I use all 2" wide material for face frames. For my finished ends, if they are raised panel, I mill a dado only 1/4" deep win the fense set 1/4". After all the finish work is done my panel side will get pocket screwed and glued into that groove and then the prefinished 1/2" ply on the inside is applied covering the pockets.(basically what Kap said). If my finished side is 1/2" ply then I mill that groove 3/8 deep and glue it and pin nail it behind the groove at an angle into the face frame. The pins hold it until the glue dries. I make 1/4" skins for the bottom. Some cabinets as you mention like islands have to basically be built all the way before finishing. I mast the floor off at the front where the ply meets the face and then cut cardboard and screw it to the back of the face frame to block out over spray. Once you work the bugs out and get a routine down pat you'll love working with the prefinished.it has saved me gobs of time and money. Heck, I can't even buy the finish for the price difference on the ply, now I don't even have to spray it. If you need anymore info feel free to email me and I'll try to help.

12/30/15       #5: Trying to use pre-finished ply. int ...
chris

Website: http://csaw.com

We have a lot of guys using the Tenso connector for just this application: flat finishing their face frames and then applying them to pre-finished cabinet boxes. It's a hidden clamping connector. I'm the Lamello product manager here at Colonial now, but I ran a cabinet shop for years - believe me, it's worth taking a look at. We have a free demo machine program if you want to try it out. Let me know.

Lamello - P-14 Clip

12/30/15       #6: Trying to use pre-finished ply. int ...
Harold morantz

Website: http://morantz cabinets.com

We build only frameless cabinets, but have been using the lamello clip system for almost a year. Great for quick closet assembly on site and for assembling with prefinished or laminated end panels. We find more uses every week. If lamello is offering a free trial period, I highly recommend it. The clips are not cheap, but they save so much time that they more than pay for themselves. You can glue your face frame and let clips hold tight till glue drys, but I think the clips by themselves would do the trick. Try them out. Harold.

12/31/15       #7: Trying to use pre-finished ply. int ...
KAP

Chris,

Those look very interesting, but as we can see with those or pocket holes, the idea is "insta-clamping" while glue dries with both systems being a back-up if glue fails...

I'd be interested in how using that is superior to pocket holes from your perspective...

12/31/15       #8: Trying to use pre-finished ply. int ...
Chris

Website: http://csaw.com

KAP,

I used to use pocket hole screws for a long time, and I was always frustrated how they'd "walk" on me, especially on face frames. My reveals would get all funky. Then, I'd always have to put a cover strip on over the oblong holes on the inside of the cabinets. I was kind of particular how the insides looked and those Kreg plugs were a pain.

All P system connectors (including Tenso) are self-aligning, but also allow lateral adjustment just prior to final clamping. Being totally invisible is in itself a huge advantage. You can also set up a Zeta very easily to position the connectors so that you'll achieve a fixed reveal on your FF overhang.

Yes, the purpose of the Tenso is to take the place of a clamp, and it's recommended that you always use adhesive if you're installing a permanent face frame or building a cabinet box with Tenso. However, you could accomplish the same thing with the Clamex connector and not use glue (200 lbs. clamping force). See video below. Some applications you could use Tenso without glue are valances, scribes, toe kicks, etc. As Harold mentions, once guys get the system in their hands they start finding all kinds of different ways to use it.

In addition to Swiss build quality and unmatched tolerances, Lamello will be introducing at least one new P system connector per year (this year, there were 2). So, there's a lot in can do now and it won't remain static.

Contact me at the MA office, I'd be glad to help you out directly too. 781.585.4364 x.206

http://www.lamello.com/en/home/join-wood/p-system/zeta-p2.html

4/24/16       #9: Trying to use pre-finished ply. int ...
Y.Heller Member

That lamello biscuit cutter is damn cool. But the little holes for the allen key still kills me.

If they could figure out how how to make a cutter that drills a very shallow ring around the allen hole exactly the way the FastCap drill bit works I would completely switch over my entire method of construction.

Then just buy the little round stickers in whatever wood or prefinished color that go perfectly flush into the hole and hide the screw hole.

Send me a free tool system when you guys finally implement that idea into your system.

 

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