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Subject: Re: frameless cabinets

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Message Thread:

frameless cabinets

1/12/16       
John Member

I am looking at staring to build frameless cabinets as another option in our shop. I have an edgebander which we really only use for shelves. Is there some good information on the proper ways to build? I am going to buy the true32 book and video but is there any other good sources for information?

1/12/16       #2: frameless cabinets ...
Jim Herron

Look at blum pearls, process32 and kiss ii cabinet system for starters on layout for boring patterns, cabinet heights and door heights.
I think at minimum a double row line borer is at top of requirement list for hardware placement.

1/12/16       #3: frameless cabinets ...
Larry

Many ways to skin a cat! A lot will depend on your equipment. Can you cut square, accurate, chip-free panels? Highly unlikely on a table saw.
Do you have a way of quickly and accurately drilling line bore holes? Generally this means drilling multiple holes per stroke.
How are you going to join the case parts? With the proper equipment doweling is fastest. Lots of other simple ways, biscuit, Domino, screws, blind dado, Confirmats ....
Material choices: Melamine board is the most common. Pretty consistent thickness, durable finish, many colors/patterns BUT heavy. The two most commonly used thicknesses are 5/8" (16mm) and 3/4" (19mm). Prefinished plywood is used by people with an aversion to P Bd or MDF. In some markets melamine on MDF is common. There are considerable variations in the quality of melamine panels. The face papers can be anywhere from 40 gram to 120 gram, thermally fused or glued.
Most common back is 1/4" let into a groove and secured with hot melt or staples while held square in the case clamp. If you don't case clamp take care to keep the case square. The nailer goes behind the back. Some people use plant on 1/2" backs, no nailer. Look over all the options. The full European system has been very well worked out. Hanging rails, leg levelers, hardware etc.
Whatever system you opt for, accuracy is key to a good result. Hafele has lots of hardware, some tools.
We are a commercial only shop so everything is Euro box construction.
If you have specific questions I'll try to help. There is an out of date Blum publication that might be a good starting point. See if your supplier has one. Might be able to find it on-line.

1/12/16       #4: frameless cabinets ...
Bruce H Member

It only as difficult as you want to make it. It is a box with doors and drawers. You are replacing the face frame with an end panel and making each cabinet an individual box. At that point you decide how big the box will be and where you want to mount the drawer guides and hinges. It is WAY less complicated than a face frame cabinet.

The 32mm system is a pre determined layout for mounting hardware. Had it been invented in the US on one inch centers and called the 1" System, most everyone would be using it. Again, only as difficult as you want to make it. In a nut shell, front heights are increments of 32mm less something for clearance. (3mm is what I use) The biggest stumbling block for most shops is the metric system. It is much easier if you switch to cutting metric and not try converting every measurement into inches. Don't try and over think it.

Once you grasp the basics you can use it as a place to start if you need something different. Cabinets, doors and drawer fronts can be made taller or shorter depending on the requirement.

1/12/16       #5: frameless cabinets ...
Hen Bob Member

I 2nd Larry with it being absolutely necessary to be able to cut your pieces square and consistent.. I bought some equipment off a shop closing and they used full 3/4" backs, we have been building them like that since that day. Yes it does add weight, but it keeps the box square and eliminates the need to add nailer strips later.

1/12/16       #6: frameless cabinets ...
rich c.

John, I have to chuckle. You aren't too quick to make changes are you? Conversion to frameless conversations like yours had to be getting going 30+ years ago. How long have you been in business, just curious to see a post like this again. Brings back the good old days of the 80s! Don't take this wrong, it just tickled me.

1/12/16       #7: frameless cabinets ...
Larry

HB You make my back hurt. We don't add nailers "later." They are doweled into the case at the same time as all the rest of the parts, then case clamped. The 1/4" back just drops into the slot, is secured around the edges and 2 or 3 screws go through the nailer, back, and into the top stretcher while in the clamp. Plenty solid. Do you also use a full top?
Rich, We were kind of late to the frameless process but have been exclusively frameless since 1988.

1/13/16       #9: frameless cabinets ...
Hen Bob Member

Larry

No we do not use full tops, stretchers as usual.. We do dowel everything as I assume you do. A couple lift tables do all the heavy lifting as well..

1/21/16       #11: frameless cabinets ...
chris

Website: http://www.hofmannjoinery.com

Along the way, check out the Lamello P system for assembly. Interesting alternative for frameless. You don't have to make a separate end panel. Fasteners are super strong and almost invisible. Lots of other applications too.

Lamello P System

1/21/16       #12: frameless cabinets ...
Larry

Metric system, I sure wish this country had gone metric long ago. It was talked about in the 70's. It is a much better system. Now we are forced to use two systems. The government lost a satellite because they mixed metric and imperial. Everyone now has to have two sets of tools. Dumb!!!!

 

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