Message Thread:
feeder on the jointer
11/9/16
does this work?
we're looking to ease our jointing operations and i'm just curious to see how viable an option this would be for us. right now, we get all of our material in rough and hand joint all pieces. we have extension tables to accommodate longer sticks, but the process is tiring on the operator. we're working exclusively in thicker material (8/4+) and generally in 9-12' lengths.
can you start the feeder up right away, or do you need to make a couple of passes by hand to get a good, flat surface? is there a particular feeder configuration that works best for the operation? we have a delta three wheel feeder that i could easily incorporate with our jointer.
11/9/16 #2: feeder on the jointer ...
The answer is get a straight line rip saw. A properly set up SLR will cut a glue line at 90+ fpm all day. Against logic it produces a better joint than a jointer.
You will need a good machine to get a 12' joint not a used and abused auction machine.
11/9/16 #3: feeder on the jointer ...
I just put a feeder on my jointer, don't have tons of experience with it, but it does work. I hand feed the first few inches before the board reaches the feeder. If you take a deep enough cut in the first pass you don't have to worry about the feeder pushing a bow out because the bow/cup will be cut out and the jointed part of the board will register on the outfeed table before it gets to the feeder. Some boards are too twisted or cupped and need more finesse than a feeder can provide, but it's easy enough to crank the feeder up or swing it out of the way to hand feed those. Obviously some will move from internal stresses after jointing, but I think that would happen regardless of hand or mechanical feeding. Since you've got one, try it out, pretty easy to set up and see if it works for you. Remember to set the feeder a little lower to account for the amount of stock removed.
11/10/16 #4: feeder on the jointer ...
pete - what thickness lumber are you running? do you have a picture you can share of your set up?
bill - i'm sorry for the confusion - i'm talking about face jointing.
11/10/16 #5: feeder on the jointer ...
Sorry I missed that. What volume?
11/10/16 #6: feeder on the jointer ...
bill - hard to say, as it varies by week. i'd say we're averaging 300-500 bf a week.
i know this isn't a huge amount. i'm more interested in making the process a little more consistent and in making it a little easier on my guys.
11/10/16 #7: feeder on the jointer ...
Make sense. Not enough to justify a dual side planer.
11/10/16 #8: feeder on the jointer ...
I bought the feeder for mounting on the front of the shaper for running tall panels through the vertical cut on the lock miter as well as using on the jointer...let me switch it to the jointer and I'll post some pics. My stock ranges from 4/4-6/4.
11/10/16 #9: feeder on the jointer ...
A feeder on the outfeed only table will work fine, but you loose control over the stock. A good operator will be able to dance with it to save some parts that may otherwise be rejected. You will get higher waste with a jointer and feeder than a joiner only, given a decent operator.
Are you facing only, not edging?
I think you make wood tops. When we do that, we rough rip, then face and edge, then plane. Then glue to width and then plane and/or sand again.
May I suggest a Weinig Quattromat. I had one for about 10 years, and it made money everyday. It has a jointer type indeed table and and jointer type side fence so the bottom and the right edge are machined and dead flat and square. The other two heads, easily set (3 mins max), then get width and then thickness. Perfect blanks, by the mile.
500 b/f may equal about 2,500 l/f of squarish stock. This is about an hour and a half for the Quattromat (25 l/f per minute). Ours was 24K new, and went for 4k at auction.
We also had an SLR that did rip fairly straight, but we did not rely on it for glue line quality.
11/10/16 #10: feeder on the jointer ...
A moulder would certainly be faster if you have the space, dust collection, etc. There's trade offs for any process/machine application, since you've got the feeder it won't take much to try it.
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11/10/16 #11: feeder on the jointer ...
I agree with David. Twist is the one default a feeder doesn't handle very well. I can balance the board when feeding by hand, if the twist is bad. A feeder is just going to put all the pressure on one end of the twist and you'll likely scrap that board when it goes too thin.
11/10/16 #12: feeder on the jointer ...
Don't think anyone would recommend running a twisted board with a feeder. It's not a silver bullet for jointing and you can't just rent an armadillo (with no opposable thumbs) from the zoo, man them at the jointer with a feeder and think the setup is going to spit out perfectly jointed lumber. If the boards are too twisted, set them aside and hand feed them.
11/11/16 #13: feeder on the jointer ...
Website: http://csaw.com/lamello/index.html
Highly recommended! When I had my shop, this was one of the best things I did. Turned face-joining of long 8/4 material from a 2-man job to 1, increased safety a ton (you never got within FEET of the cutterhead), it was faster, and it was easier on the operator (less fatigue).
1. I had a local welding shop make up a sturdy mounting base for it, that I bolted to the outfeed side of the machine.
2. Put the rear-most wheel just hanging over the cutterhead from the outfeed table side and angle the whole feeder towards the fence.
3. Set the depth just deep enough to move the piece through.
After the face-jointing was done, I'd flip the feeder up on edge and use it for edge joining too (we didn't have a straight line rip).
BTW: I also put a 4-roll feeder on my Tannewitz table saw for safety reasons too. Worked awesome. Take the 2nd wheel off and position the void left by it over the saw blade. Again, your guys won't have to get anywhere near the blade.
11/11/16 #14: feeder on the jointer ...
Comatic has a feeder built for this and that one makes sense to me. I mounted my three wheel PF to my jointer on the outfeed side and found unless you pay fairly close attention to the down pressure it is very easy to turn the jointer into a planer.
11/11/16 #15: feeder on the jointer ...
I have a three wheeled feeder on my jointer (12") with one wheel on the in-feed side, two on the out-feed. If the boards are reasonably flat and without twist it works well. For style and rails I still feed by hand because I don't want ANY warp. A couple of passes thru the jointer and then plane for thickness.
11/14/16 #16: feeder on the jointer ...
Website: http://harmonicdesignworks.com
Before we had a SLR and moulder for S4S, I had a pair of jointers with power feeds. one for facing and one for edging.
Like everyone has said, run all wheels on the outfeed. One strategy for twisted boards is to use a sliver of wood or some stray sawdust as a shim 6-8" back from the leading edge to prevent the feeder from rocking the board.
Honestly though, we get better results now buying H&M material and just skimming the faces in the moulder. Not that it results in 100% flat stock, but it keeps you from using marginal boards for places where you really need straight and flat. Too often spending the time to flatten a twisted rough board gives you a temporarily flat piece that moves to a new equilibrium resembling the original shape.
11/14/16 #17: feeder on the jointer ...
maybe i'm going about this all wrong.
we have an slr and a s4s machine (older scmi sintex). i purchased the sintex to be able to use it in place of our jointer and planer for initial runs, but really haven't explored it much. in running shorter material, the jointing capabilities seem pretty limited/inconsistent. of course, we could always hand joint first and then clean up with the sintex. honestly, i just haven't had much time to work it into our operation.
as for ripping rough lumber, is this the typical procedure? we only do this when we have to since it seems like the material can easily bind in the saw. "when we have to" for us us cutting a 12"+ board in half to get it within 11" to work with our jointer.
i've avoided h&m from our supplier only because finished thickness is of huge importance to us, and we're sometimes holding our breath to get to final thickness.
11/14/16 #18: feeder on the jointer ...
I guess a lot depends on the species and how consistently it is sawn. Sometimes when rough is the only thing available, thickness will range from 1.25" down to under 1" in any given board. I much prefer to buy from someone like Continental who can custom H&M to whatever you want overnight, like 1" rather than 15/16". You can see the color and grain, and nothing gets stuck in the saw or moulder.
I am the first to admit that I have a hard time doing this, but if you apply lean to your lumber handling, why would you want to add so many steps IF (and I know this might be problematic for you) you can get similar final product with half the handling?
11/15/16 #19: feeder on the jointer ...
What I've done when I put a feeder on my jointer to overcome the problem of the twisted or kinked ends which were cut near the butt of the log, is to keep my Makita 1806B power plane close at hand to the stack. When I pick up a heavy timber that I know will be a lot of work to flatten on the jointer, I can knock down the problem spots quickly, by only having to lift a 20# tool, then when I run it over the big jointer, I know it will be flat on one pass, so it really saves a lot of work.
NorthernTool.com
11/18/16 #20: feeder on the jointer ...
Not the hi-jack this thread but I am also looking to put a feeder on my 20" jointer. Does anyone have experience, or seen the Co-matic jointer feeder?
http://www.shopgearinc.com/products/co-matic-power-feeders/af114j-joint erfeeder.php
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