we're making some small shelves - 24" x 10" - out of santos mahogany. my plan is to use solid 1.5" thick stock, mitered for the perimeter on three sides with plywood and veneer for the field. we're going to rabbit the solid stock so the plywood sits near flush, sand it flush with the solid banding, and apply the veneer on top of everything.
do i need to balance the plywood (12mm, 7 or 9 ply Russian birch) with a veneer, or does my smallish size and construction style not make this necessary?
if i should veneer it, do you think i would be okay to veneer one side and wait a day or two to veneer the top side? without altering my construction plan, it'll be at least next day before i can add the top/showing veneer to complete the balanced panel.
I'd say you are going to have trouble even before doing anything on the faces. If I understand it correctly, you are going to glue plywood on the end grain of a 10" wide board? Unless it's quarter sawn, something is going to crack. Seems like you are ignoring the movement of the solid wood.
think a 23" x 9" piece of plywood with three sides of 1" wide solid wood edging. i'm going to cut a rabbit at the top and bottom of the solid to receive a top and bottom piece plywood. i'm going to sand this all flush and then veneer over the plywood and solid to the top and bottom sides are seamless.
i've done this before (without using a backing veneer) over 1/2" mdf for some showroom pieces, but never over plywood (and never for a paying gig).
I have idea, but I suggest you go ahead and do it and report back here so we can all benefit form your success or failure.
This is why woodworkers are so indecisive....no security anywhere.
I still don't know, that is big enough where I would wonder myself.
So you will have a 7-9 ply ply with an added veneer and glue on one side. If it is to work, use a glue with little to no water, keep everything, before during and after at stable temp and humidity. If vacuum bagging, dead stack upon removal. After a day or two stack with stickers. Finish the same top and bottom, and then cross fingers. It needs to ship and store and go into service all at a stable humidity. Then report back here.
Remember what Dr Gene says - "wood moves in response to changes in moisture content".
andy - santos ply is only available in full hack quantities. i only need approximately 40 sq total and have already ordered veneer.
david - will do. i'm maybe running out of time to veneer both sides anyways. my showroom pieces look fine but i used 1/2" mdf instead of ply. ply gives it more stiffness and that's why i incorporated it. i'm not going to be able to finish both sides as the design won't allow for it, so maybe i should only cheat one thing at a time and veneer both sides.
To add to David's response, I wouldn't rely on just stacking in a controlled environ. I would clamp my stack of veneered panels to a known flat.
My feeling is that the problem with unbalanced panels isn't so much the additional veneer but the glue surface. Once cured a glue film reduces moisture transfer while the other face is uninhibited. If this is the case make sure you at least finish the unveneered face to slow moisture transfer.
FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards(return to top)
WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
A valid email return address must be included with each message.
Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.
You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.
WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.
Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).
Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.
Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).
Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).
Repeated Forum Abuse:
Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.
There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).
The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)
Forum Posting Form Guidelines
The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines
Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Thread Related File Uploads
Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .FLV .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
The editors, writers, and staff at WOODWEB try to promote safe practices.
What is safe for one woodworker under certain conditions may not be safe
for others in different circumstances. Readers should undertake the use
of materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB after considerate evaluation,
and at their own risk.