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Do you glue face frames to box?

2/7/16       
Mike Member

My question is this, if you use pocket holes to attach the face frame to the box do you also use glue? I know glue will be a better job but is it really necessary. I make my face frames with 2 pocket holes at each joint and i also use glue. I started using pocket holes to attach the F.F. to the box a couple of years ago but before that i always just glued and clamped them. Lately I've been just using pocket holes to attach the F.F. to the box but always wondering if I'm making a mistake by doing that. So lets say an upper box 24 inches wide and 30 inches tall and i am able to put pocket holes on all 4 sides 3 across the 24 and 4 up the 30. Has any one had problems with just pocket holes for this?

2/7/16       #2: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
Dustin orth Member

Website: http://customwoodmontrose.com

I think I have one more screw per side but we use the same method and have for years.

2/7/16       #3: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
Leo G  Member

Website: http://www.lrgwood.com

I'd put the glue on it. I rarely use pocket screws for face frames. On my lowers the top rail is attached by PS but with lots of glue. Just to limit the amount of clamps I need. Usually I use full clamp and glue for FFs because I do a full flush corner.

2/7/16       #4: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
Kevin Jenness

How much time do you save by not running a bead of glue around the perimeter? Your screw pattern seems a bit light to me even without glue. I don't suppose the face frame will actually come off without persuasion, but a little glue is cheap insurance. Just my $.02.

2/7/16       #5: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
Mike Fuson

Mike I've used pocket screws to attach boxes to face frames for years and without glue. Never had a failure. On a 30" upper I would probably use 5 screws. Honestly, with that many screws around a cabinet what on earth could pull it off?

2/7/16       #6: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
Leo G

Website: http://lrgwood.com

Because over time, with the expansion and contraction of the wood, screws can loosen over time. I use the screws as clamps.

2/8/16       #7: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
chris

Website: http://www.hofmannjoinery.com

I use these clips from Lamello to put my face frames on. You can flat finish at the shop, especially when FF is a solid color and needs to be finished separately from box. I also use them to connect face frames to each other on adjoining cabinet boxes, and for my scribes. AND... I use them for building frameless cabinet boxes too. They're pretty awesome.

Lamello Clips

2/8/16       #8: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
Mark  Member

For face frames, I use the pocket screws as clamps while the glue dries also; I usually don't use more than 8 a box, less if I can. Sometimes I get away with 4.

2/8/16       #9: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
Dustin orth Member

Website: http://customwoodmontrose.com

I should clarify, we only use pocket screws, no glue and about every 6" or so. Never had one come loose and even when someone does something stupid, like drop the cabinet, it doesn't come loose or break.

2/8/16       #10: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
Mike Member

I appreciate your responses and thank you. I'll add glue when i can with the pocket holes and not worry so much when i don't use glue I'll just add more screws. I think it would be just fine. Thanks

2/12/16       #11: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
JeffM

The only weight the face frame bears is the doors. Really no need for glue. The life of an average kitchen these days is much less than what it would take for the screws to lose any holding power.

2/12/16       #12: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
Mike Fuson

I agree Jeff.

2/12/16       #13: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
Leo G Member

So this is were you guys want to cheap out? 1/2 cents worth of glue and 30 seconds of time? Really?

2/12/16       #14: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
Dustin orth Member

Website: http://customwoodmontrose.com

No this is not where we cheap out. All of our face frames are stained, glazed and finished off the cabinet box. Glue doesn't stick to finish. Look at my website and you'll see I don't cheap it at all. No melamine or mdf at all. All 3/4 ply core with 1/4 backs and 1/2 nailers behind those for pulling the crappy framing and drywall straight. More often than not we pop drywall screws when we tighten our cabinets to the walls.

2/12/16       #15: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
Mike Fuson

Leo, I mean no disrespect at all to you. You've given me good advise on here several times. There are places where glue on a cabinet is necessary. I started glueing face frame joints several years ago to prevent shift. End grain to face grain will tend to shift. It's not a matter of being cheap, nor a matter of saving time with me. I just think it's overkill on this particular application.

2/12/16       #16: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
Jeff M

Here's the other question...How much does glue really matter when it's being applied to plywood edges.? I say not much. It's a small step above end grain.

2/12/16       #17: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
Bill Hagers

We do glue dado's and clamp the sides, flat face glue for upper and lower. Staple at 45 degrees and pull the clamps out. Never had a call back and it's incredibly strong. There are a lot of ways to go about this but I prefer to build the box on the frame. You just have to find what works best for you and your resources. However nothing is worse than those on site 'cabinetmakers' that just nail the face frame parts onto the box with no pocket screws like their are building cheap wainscotting. That's an excellent way to see every joint you make open up in short order.

I would say if you are going to pocket screw it on with sufficient fasteners glue is unnecessary. It's an extra few cents maybe but the argument I would make is cleanup. If you're doing stain grade glue squeeze out wiped up can be a real pain. Sometimes I will go with just pocket screws to avoid any cleanup. If you can't physically pull the frames off the box with your bear hands I seriously doubt it will ever come off under normal conditions.

2/12/16       #18: Do you glue face frames to box? ...
Dustin orth Member

Website: http://customwoodmontrose.com

No this is not where we cheap out. All of our face frames are stained, glazed and finished off the cabinet box. Glue doesn't stick to finish. Look at my website and you'll see I don't cheap it at all. No melamine or mdf at all. All 3/4 ply core with 1/4 backs and 1/2 nailers behind those for pulling the crappy framing and drywall straight. More often than not we pop drywall screws when we tighten our cabinets to the walls.


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