Safety Speed Cut Thermwood Corporation ECabinet Systems

Cabinetmaking

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Faceframe rail on a shaper

12/10/16       
Joe

Website: http://joescustomcabinetry.com

I have decided to change up how we process our frame stock. Currently we bring it in at 13/16 straighlined on one long. Here's our process:
1 Sand stock down to 3/4"
2 Power feed to 3/32 over desired width
3 2-3 passes over thickness planner until we are at desired thickness
4. Off to frame cut station

Here's issue. This works really well for most of our wood but maple and cherry end up with too much chip out on the edges. I have tried running the edges through the widebelt but it has been clumsey at best. I require extremely precise thickness for my rail width and my sander doesn't seem to be exactly capable of what I'm asking. Then there's the edges that seem to get rounded over slightly leading to poor frame joints.

Here's my proposed new schedule.
1. Sand to thickness
2. Rip to 3/32+
3. Cut frame stock to length
4. Clean first edge against shaper fence
5. Size width against second fence opposite the standard fence

That's the plan. Here is why I think it will work better for us. I can pre-stock all my rail as sanded and ripped. I never had luck stocking sized rail as it changes in size over time based on humidity.
If we use a shelix head we should have much less tear out and chipping in challenging woods. The tear out on the back side of the cut on the miter saw would be milled out on the shaper.

Now my two questions are this. Any feedback on this approach? Secondly I recall seeing a shaper fence system that was designed to do this sort of thing years ago and I'm trying to track it down. Basically a fixed is added parallel to the standard fence. Different widths of HDPE are added against the secondary to adjust widths. I like the idea of just purchasing a system if I can find it rather than re-inventing the wheel. Is anyone familiar with this set up?

12/10/16       #2: Faceframe rail on a shaper ...
KR

I never machine to finished width until I cut to finished length. Then I machine all edges of stiles and rails on an outboard fence on the shaper setup with a digital ruler. I start all frame material 1/4" oversize in the rough. Machine off 1/8" from the convex edge (also called the crown). reset measurement to final frame width, turn parts to second edge and machine edge to final frame width. This process is fast and does a perfect job straightening any stock under around 36" with a fence about 42" long. Use a longer fence for longer stock.

12/10/16       #3: Faceframe rail on a shaper ...
Jim Clark

After I rip them 1/16 larger
I run all my rails and stiles across my
router table. It makes all exactly parallel
and exactly the same width.


View higher quality, full size image (2048 X 1360)

12/11/16       #4: Faceframe rail on a shaper ...
door shop guy

If you get the Wynmatic system...i recomend do not get his fence and just make your own out of a piece of 1/2" baltic birch and a piece of laminate. I had to send his fence back because his plastic facing is crooked and not consistent and not even square to the table. Other then that his other shaper fence parts are good. In my opinion.

12/11/16       #5: Faceframe rail on a shaper ...
cabmaker

Our process to do this is similar to Jim Clark does it though we use a shaper instead of a router.

The shaper has a fixed fence at the far end of the table. From this fixed position we have a library of shims that reduce the part to a final, repetitive size. This is done with a power feeder.

We also have a dedicated 15 inch wide planer with spiral head. The cutting head is in a fixed position at 22mm thickness. We use a similar set of shim/sleds to control thickness in the other direction. Our glass stops, for example, are always a consistent thickness.

We usually mill a bit of extra stock in case that defects of anticipated defects etc. up.Being able to produce repetitive dimensions (with minimal skill and set up time) allows us to use fall down from previous jobs and/or bank extra stock for subsequent projects.

12/11/16       #6: Faceframe rail on a shaper ...
Barry Golash

Hi
I saw this post and thought of the jig I made for the shaper. I use it to size stiles and rails. It has a tape measure on the jig so I can easily get the size I need


View higher quality, full size image (600 X 450)

12/11/16       #7: Faceframe rail on a shaper ...
rich c.

I was taught to never run a piece of stock between a fence and a bit. Just asking for an accident if the stock binds or kicks back. How do those systems handle stock that isn't straight?

12/11/16       #8: Faceframe rail on a shaper ...
jbdyer

I use a system similar to what Barry is using. Have been doing this for about 20 years and never had a problem, you can use a feather board if you think kickback might be a problem. I usually rip to +3/16" , run both sides on shaper to +/- .005 (I check this with a micrometer(a $40 tool)), cut to length, assemble, then sand completed face frame to .750, if the frame is wider than my wide belt, then I sand first then assemble.

12/11/16       #9: Faceframe rail on a shaper ...
door shop guy

I think Weaver and Aigner both have system tools to do this as well. I have found that you need pressure to push the stock against the outboard fence or the cutters could pull the stock into the cutter more. You guys will laugh at me but i use ball catches in my wood fences to do this.
Not needed for climb cutting and i have climb cut a lot as well. I use a 4 wheel powerfeed.

12/12/16       #10: Faceframe rail on a shaper ...
Barry Golash

Hi
Never had a kick back. I always use a power feeder. Its hard for a piece of wood to kick with downward pressure from a power feeder.
That`s why its used to climb cut.
BW Barry

12/12/16       #11: Faceframe rail on a shaper ...
Adam

Rich,

I think you were taught not to freehand a piece between the cutter and an outboard fence. It is a standard procedure used by most people who run shapers. It is typically done with a power feed that provides pressure against the fence and table. In my mind its perfectly safe it setup correctly. I'm still not a fan of climb cutting.

12/14/16       #12: Faceframe rail on a shaper ...
KR

Barry, Like your fixture! Is this available on the market or did you build this?

12/14/16       #13: Faceframe rail on a shaper ...
Barry Golash

Hi
I was building a 3 axis cnc at the time and was looking for parts on eBay. I found this linear motion assembly and could not
pass it up. Even though I had no intended use for it. Then it came to me to use this assembly as a outboard fence. Its worked just fine.
I had a digital readout attached to it but it was a pain to calibrate it when the batteries died. So now it has a tape and pointer.
The doors always seem to come out the correct size so its precise enough.

12/14/16       #14: Faceframe rail on a shaper ...
Jim Clark  Member

Website: http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f386/jcquack/Fur...

I've never had a kick-back problem either.
But I always straighten one side on the
jointer first and take off less than 1/16"
per pass on my router.
Lately I find using a Freud Glue Line Rip
blade on my table saw also gets it really
straight to begin with.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Limtech Industries, Inc. Lamello