Safety Speed Cut Thermwood Corporation ECabinet Systems

Cabinetmaking

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Pre-glued Dowels

4/9/18       
Stewart Member

Okay, as I am getting deeper into the dowel joinery, I'm changing my mind on a couple of things. I'm really considering the pre-glued dowels to save on clean up time at the machine. I'm just not sure how much water to dose in the end holes. Should it be "running" out when testing at the machine before dowels are driven in? How do you know you've gotten enough to activate all the way around?

4/9/18       #2: Pre-glued Dowels ...
Bill

Stewart,

What brand machine is it?
The two bore and insert machines I have used use time as the variable to change how much water is injected. You should not have water running out of the hole.

Call the manufacturer and get their baseline for water injection.

Then shoot a dowel grab a pliers and pull it out after a few seconds. You will be able to see how much glue “melted”. It won’t look like it completely melted but you will see transfer to the hole. Get it to where you think it’s right and let the dowel sit for 20 minutes. Then try and pull one out. It won’t always be impossible but it will be close.

Water should not run out the hole. Our current machine shoots the water at an angle, it bounces off the bottom and hits the top and sides.

Good luck!

4/10/18       #3: Pre-glued Dowels ...
Stewart Member

We use a Gannomat drill and dowel. Yes, the timing of the glue nozzle is in milliseconds. If you have experience with this machine, it would help me to know where to start. Otherwise, looking for "transfer" is a helpful tip. Seeing that wood doesn't always react well to water, I didn't want to cause any issues with swelling.

4/10/18       #4: Pre-glued Dowels ...
Bill Member

It takes very little water. I would call gannomat for a starting point. Even if you did not buy it new I am sure they would help you.

4/10/18       #5: Pre-glued Dowels ...
Stewart Member

Thanks, Bill! On the other end - meaning the face holes - I am drilling 16 mm deep (15 mm insertion). My material is 19 mm. I want to make sure I've got the best bite so I was thinking of using a regular titebond yellow glue here. Does this make sense or am I asking for trouble?

4/10/18       #6: Pre-glued Dowels ...
Bill Member

The other side is more difficult. We do use a glue like Tightbond. You want the hole deep enough so extra glue has a place to go but not so deep that it is not pushed too far up the flutes. Our hole is 2mm deeper than the dowel penetration. The link has some good info.

What I found over time was that the assemblers will not use enough glue, too much and it squeezes out so they lean towards less. Everyone's idea of enough is different.

I ended up getting a some Jolly Colla glue guns. They were $3,000 in 2014 and they are still working fine.
http://www.omal.eu/en/products/gluing-system/item/jollycolla.html

They are not cheap but It is capable of putting out a metered amount of glue. I set up a program on the CNC to drill holes in sequence deeper and deeper. We then set the glue gun to fill the first hole, lets call it the deepest. Push the panels together and glue squeezes out, too much. Move on down the line until you find one that is the perfect depth. Push it together then pull it apart. See how the glue spread around the dowel without squeezing out.

We then created a glue setup board. It is a board of know thickness with hundreds of 8mm holes drilled in it to the correct depth. In the morning they set the machine fill one hole on the test board and go. Everyone is happy. Glue doesn't squeeze out and the joint is not starved.

There may be an easier cheaper way to do this but I am happy with this method, it is consistent.

We did use Lamello glue bottles set up for dowels. They were not inexpensive either and only lasted a couple years but they did work.

Here is one, I never bought anything from this place but they came up in the search. There is a collar on the bottle that limits the amount of glue on each push. For $110 it really does a good job.


View higher quality, full size image (3264 X 2448)

Dowel Technical Info

4/11/18       #7: Pre-glued Dowels ...
Stewart Member

Bill, very helpful info! Did you find any difference at all using the "thicker" normal yellow glue as opposed to the "thinner" dowel glue? In other words, as long as the amount is correct, will I have issues just using Lamello's glue bottle for dowels with the thicker stuff?

4/11/18       #8: Pre-glued Dowels ...
Bill Member

We only used "regular" glue so I can't say.

5/1/18       #9: Pre-glued Dowels ...
Larry

On the panel face we use Titebond Original with a Lamello pressure pot system that injects a measured amount. It is a bit of a pain to maintain but works well. In the bore & insert machine we use the recommended glue which is quite thin. No maintenance problems as long as it is kept clean every day. When we first got the B&I machine we did tests to see if we would use pre-glued or not. They seemed to hold OK but not as well as using glue. Just make sure you have a cover on the dowel hopper or dust will collect on the pre-glue dowels and keep them form holding as well. We've tested complete cabinets, to failure. Most of the time a big patch of the melamine board is torn out around the dowels.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Limtech Industries, Inc. Lamello