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Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints

4/23/18       
perryg114 Member

So I want to glue face frame joints as well as use Kreg screws or pocket hole screws etc. Problem is that when you have the added lube of the glue, the joint tends to wander even when clamped. The side with the screw ends up sticking out. I have had some success glueing the face frame to the cabinet box.

4/23/18       #2: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
Mike Fuson

The problem isn’t the glue, it’s the angle of the Kreg pocket hole. Castle probably isn’t as bad. I use a Kreg machine and frames a kitchen today and they do tend to shift a little. I just run all the frames through the sander and flatten everything front and back. Vise Grip clamps are the best in my opinion.

4/23/18       #3: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
Bill

The problem is the clamp. A proper face frame clamp will keep the parts from moving.

4/23/18       #4: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
Leo G Member

You're using to much glue. This amount of glue that has no real squeeze out. I usually make the edge of the front have more glue because the seen edge is what counts.

Also setting up the Kreg jig correctly in important. There should be about 1/8" of meat left from the end to where the small part of the drill hole ends.

The tighter you can keep the parts together the less shift you will have.

If you're not someone who rushes everything if you glue and screw the joint you can leave the clamp on for about 1 minute while the glue sets up. This will keep the joint from shifting also.

Most of my joints shift less than 5 thousandths of an inch. Worst is 15 thou.

4/23/18       #5: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
Kip

I’ve used an iteration of the Kreg jig for 20 years in my shop with great success. I’ve had a Kreg framing table for the last 3 years. To me, that is the biggest improvement for speed, accuracy and fatigue. Using the right amount of glue and machine setup is crucial, however, about 5 weeks ago I switched to the castle machine and I must say, I have been very impressed with both the machine and their claim about less tendency to slip during assembly. I switched to Castle after my original “Forman” died and the “new improved Foreman” proved to be less than impressive for a professional shop environment.

4/24/18       #6: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
perryg114 Member

I think I need a better clamp than their vise grip thing that goes in the pocket hole. This does not provide enough clamping force to hold the joints still. In fact it tends to push the joint in the direction of the pocket hole and does nothing when you are using glue. So I need a better way to hold the corner together while tightening the screws. So what works?

4/24/18       #7: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
Mike Fuson

This is the kinda clamp that I use, I was saying that I like the vise grip version better.


View higher quality, full size image (915 X 1524)

4/24/18       #8: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
perryg114 Member

These are what I have. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LBK1GHI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8
&psc=1

4/24/18       #9: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
perryg114 Member

See if this link works.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LBK1GHI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

4/24/18       #10: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
Dustin orth

Website: http://customwoodmontrose.com

The biggest problem I have found with the Kreg system is twofold. The one being the above mentioned clamp, the other being the screw hole is not all the way through the first part. With that piece not having a clearance hole the threads of the screw will start cutting into the first piece, get a bite into it, then start drilling into the second piece and push it away slightly before getting a bite into that one. Therefore joint misalignment! How much that happens depends on the clamp pressure but it will happen. This is one reason we use the castle pocket screw system with a clearance hole drill built it in. We have the Kreg stuff in our install stuff but don't use it very often because of these problems.

4/24/18       #11: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
perryg114 Member

What is they best type of clamp to use for making cabinet face frames?

4/24/18       #12: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
Mark B Member

You can adjust the pocket depth to have a clearance hole in the pocketed piece.

4/24/18       #13: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
Mark B Member

Are you running flush interiors on your face frame cabinets? We run flush interiors most always and we dont even bother clamping. We apply glue to the carcass laying on its back (not too much as Leo stated), we make sure our pocket bore leaves an ever so slight clearance hole in the carcass and we just lay the face frame on by hand and using our fingers at each screw location (not many) we squeeze the carcass back from the inner edge of the faceframe ever so slightly and run the screw. With practice you can use the screw tightness to draw the interior face of the carcass flush with the face frame. The biggest problem we have with this is the screw is so close to the inner edge of the face frame that if you over drive it you can leave a hump in the face edge of the face frame or worse split it because the screw is so close to the edge of the face frame.

If we arent running flush interiors we dont worry about it too much and just use a spacer block to set the interior inset from the edge of the face frame. Still no clamps.

We dont have a Kreg machine but our drill tub drills that style hole (angled). Everyone says the castle style with the straight(er) screw angle is less an issue but we get around the problem a bit using an adjustable bit set so we can run whatever screw length and set the depth of penetration into the face frame as needed.

4/25/18       #14: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
Adam

Castle is definitely better. If you are serious about using pocket screws, I would look at getting a Castle machine. The little workbench one is great. We had the Porter Cable one for 10 years before we got the floor model.

Pocket screws, prefinished plywood, and prefinishing the frames changed the way we build cabinets. I wouldn't want to go back.

4/26/18       #15: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
Cooler Member

Drive four very small brads partially into the face frame. Trim the brads so that only about 1/8" stands proud of the surface. Apply glue. Position the face frame and then using hand pressure force the brads into the surface of the mating piece. That will prevent sliding. Then drive in your Kreg screws.

4/26/18       #16: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
Leo G Member

Ya....

no.

4/26/18       #17: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
Adam

The whole idea of pocket screws is to no other fasteners on the frames. Screw them together with p/screws. p/screw them them to the boxes.

No putty whatsoever. Looks 10x better and is way less work. The amount of time nailing, puttying, and sanding is more than you think.

If you want perfect aligned frames buy a Castle machne. If you don't mind sanding a 1/32" - 1/16"(1/32" front + back) use a Kreg. If you are getting more than 1/32" then you are not clamp them right.

We pretty much only build beaded ff cabinets. Any misalignment of the beads is obvious and work to fix.

If the Kreg clamp isn't enough pressure, then use a regular Jorgenson clamp and tighten it down hard.

4/26/18       #18: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
Adam

We also prefer the straightness of the Castle because if you overtighten the Kreg screw it might go thru the beaded profile due to the wider angle. We often place the inside edges of the frames flush with the panel.

4/27/18       #19: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
Bill Member

Someone asked what the best type of clamp is.

It is this type of clamp. This is the smallest/most cost effective. There are bigger and more heavy duty ones but this is a quality piece. Speeds the process greatly and eliminates all the problems being discussed.

Castle Face Frame Clamp

4/27/18       #20: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
perryg114 Member

That is a bit out of my price range.

4/27/18       #21: Kreg Screws and Glueing Joints ...
Bill Member

Yes they are not inexpensive. Keep an eye on auctions. The difference from using hand clamps to something like that is significant in time savings and quality.

OR go frameless!


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