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Pocket door hardware disaster

8/22/18       
Mj

I received a call from a customer as a referral, because their pocket door hardware was not working properly.

In all my years, I’ve never seen a pocket door hardware system like this. The doors are on the front of a murphy bed and IMO are wayy too big. The doors bi fold. Each (door) is about 18” wide, so each pocket door is now 36” wide x about 80” tall. They’re 3/4” (louverd) but are not the type of louvered where air can pass through. It’s almost as if they were CNC’d

The type of hardware on there now are a combination of ballbearing slides and sprocket-like wheels that ride on a grooved track

It appears as tho there are two separate sets on top of another, unless this is how it’s designed.

I spent two hours adjusting it the best I could and the bottom of the door kept sliding into the unit. (Im assuming because of the weight. They want to have me change out the hardware, but it the problem is, I’m not familiar with any hardware, especially by accuride, that will hold a bi fold door, when closed, 36x80. The only way to remove the old hardware is to disassemble the entire unit, including the murphy bed hardware itself. I will try to include some pics. Whomever designed the unit, made the doors too wide as it was and the doors need to force close against one another in order to shut. The hinges are maxed out in adjustability. This is also an overlay application

Who makes pocket door hardware to work for this application? It’s a 3/4” overlay

Thx


View higher quality, full size image (4032 X 3024)


View higher quality, full size image (4032 X 3024)


View higher quality, full size image (4032 X 3024)

8/22/18       #2: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
Mj

I also want to add, when attempting to slide the door back into the unit, the sprocket like wheel slips on the track and will not allow the doors to slide back into rhe unit without major binding, which doesn’r let the door slide all the way back in. It goes a few inches in and then jumps/slips on the track.

8/22/18       #3: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
Mj

I just looked at my notes and each door side is 36-1/2x82”. So each individual door is 18-1/4 x 82

8/22/18       #4: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
Stuart Douglas

Those accuride pocket door hardwares are designed for CABINET doors. The doors shown, I'm sure, far exceed the manufacturers specifications for that hardware. I would contact accuride for targeted assistance and find out if there is a product that they can help you with. Failing that, the doors could be lightened up by actually being a louvered door, not faux. I suspect that the net result is that this is plain and simple poor design. Good Luck and please let us know if you do actually find a solution.

8/22/18       #5: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
Adam B

Those slides look like KV 8092 heavy duty pocket slides or some knock off variety.

Maybe there is some info in the instruction sheet that would help

http://www.knapeandvogt.com/8092

8/22/18       #6: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
David R Sochar  Member

Look in the Hafele catalog for large pocket door hardware like Hawa and Hawa Turnaway. That hardware is made to carry weight - up to hundreds of pounds. The bed unit will need to be disassembled so you can remove the old and reset the new hardware.

Of course, once you touch this problem child, it is yours forever. I think I would start by asking the owners what advice or satisfaction, if any, they have received from the maker. He/she is the one at fault for a lousy hardware spec. See what they have to say fro themselves and see if you can partner with them in coming up with some form of help on this.

8/22/18       #7: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
Mj

I was called in to see what I can do to fix the door because it won’t slide in easily at all. I expressed to the customer I will do what I can to repair, but it is possible I will need to disassemble the entire unit to change put the hardware (if i can find it). I thought Accurides cable system would work, but after looking further into it, that systems spec isn’t meant for as wide and as tall as these doors are.

The maker of this cudtom piece is no longer doing custom (go figure)

The customer wrote me an email last niight claiming the adjustments I made have now made the door inoperable.

They’re also trying to stick it to me because my business card says 100% satisfaction. (This is meant on pieces I make, not others screw ups.

The good faith part of me wants to give it another whirl, but the lock out position no longer works and all the weight is stressed on the bottom part of the slide and the plastic gear keeps/kept slipping off the track

I didn’t charge him a dime, nor did i ask for money for my two hours of efforts....they’re now making someone elses design my problem.

I told him while i was adjusting it, the whole unit needs to be disassembled in order to replace the hardware and with all the work needing to do ir, It may ne cheaper to build a new one the right way.

They’re under contract to sell their home and the buyer wants to keep the piece.

8/22/18       #8: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
BradS

Here is a solution using Hafele Slido Silent Fold 40. This is a bit more cost effective than the Hawa or others. All the little parts still add up. It holds the weight fine since there is a sliding track on the top.


View higher quality, full size image (1653 X 2204)


View higher quality, full size image (965 X 1286)

8/22/18       #9: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
Mj

Thx brad...the challenge is getting it to slide into the unit and not jump the track, so i need pocket door hardware that will support that size and weight. They’re real cabinet doors at 3/4” thick

8/22/18       #10: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
Jim Herron

Website: JimHerron

Walk away from this nightmare NOW
Keep him 100% satisfied that he dicked you out of two hours of time for free.
Next thing on the horizon is for them to transfer the 100% satisfaction warranty to the new owner.
That thing is f'ed from the git go.
Be glad you haven't sent a bill.

8/22/18       #11: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
rich c.

Yup, walk away.

8/23/18       #12: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
Pat Gilbert

Why not attach the doors to the Murphy bed like everyone else and be done with it.

That would eliminate the problem and be less monkey motion to open the bed.

8/23/18       #13: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
Pat Gilbert

On second thought that hardware doesn't appear to accommodate that solution.

That setup looks very low end.

They are going have to pony up enough money to replace it.

I would walk also

8/23/18       #14: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
David R Sochar  Member

The rest of the story.....

The owners dickered with the original maker on the price, so they would not allow a better hardware. The maker said if it did not work, they would have to pay him to fix it.

Don't worry about their 100% - you never billed them and they never paid for anything.

Contact the maker and tell him where you are, in a non-accusatory way. See what he has to say about the job. There is almost always more to the story than the owners will share.

Contact the owners and let them know you have no responsibility to them. They need to go back to the maker for their 100% satisfaction.

8/23/18       #15: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
Chris

Walk away.

8/23/18       #16: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
Steve Member

The KV link such as Adam has provided, takes you to a pretty complete set of installation sheets and specifications, assuming the part number is correct (or is it just an example?). Anyway, the doors seem to be within the weight limits of the hardware (several hundred ##) and the faux louvers are irrelevant. The issue seems to be clouded with editorial comments rather than verifying the specs of a possible incorrect installation. Have you contacted the support sources on the installation sheets? I don't see any reference to such results.

8/24/18       #17: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
Paul Miller

Website: http://MCCWOODWORKING.COM

The cabinet maker used a roller track system. These systems did not work. They slipped and then they came out with the cable system which works. I have never used these systems for a bi-fold pocket assembly. If there was a way to replace the rolling track system with a cable system, that might work.

I just did a bi-fold pocketing system using HAWA Cancepta 25. What a struggle to install. Also, the cost of this hardware was about $2,800 for two sets, one left and one right. You would have to rebuild the entire unit and that is not going to happen.

You might be able to attach the doors to a sheet of plywood and attach plywood to the bed and have the doors pull down like most Murphy beds are designed. But, the base board is probably too high and the doors would be too wide for the bed. You do not want the doors on a Murphy bed sticking out six inches or so when you pull the bed down.

This is not your problem, and unless you want grief in your life, don't get involved. Wish them well. This will not kill their deal, they have lived with it for many years and the new owner will as well.

8/25/18       #18: Pocket door hardware disaster ...
David R Sochar  Member

I have several Hawa sets out in the real world, though none of them are for bifold, though they could be adapted. Some are as old as 20 years, used daily, with no problems.
Yes, they are expensive.
Yes, they are hard to install.
The instructions start with the first line "Build a square and true cabinet."

Remember - "Good Quality, Good Price or Good Service - pick any two."


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