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End grain bar top

9/17/19       
Thomas

This is bothering me quite a bit. In the August issuer of Kitchen and Bath Design magazine on pages 24 and 26 they show a bar top made from fir end grain pieces. This top has a perimeter of solid wood looking to be approx 3/4 to 1 inch in thickness. Everything I know, (limited I am sure) makes me cringe just looking at it. Seems to me that this would self destruct in short order. How is a perimeter of long grain going to hold a bar top of end grain from moving? There is no way in my "limited understanding" that I would attempt this. It goes against everything I have learned about grain movement. Is this possible or am I missing something?

9/17/19       #2: End grain bar top ...
Leo G Member

Is it a true end grain or just a very thin slice. That would make it feasible.

9/17/19       #3: End grain bar top ...
rich c.

There are countless woodworkers that think the laws of wood movement somehow don't apply to them. Also wouldn't be surprised if the end grain blocks were glued to plywood.

9/18/19       #4: End grain bar top ...
David R Sochar Member

Thomas - Your professional eye deceived you. It added the third dimension and let you believe the blocks are 3 dimensional, when they are just thin slices of end grain.

Veneering does more than just extend coverage of rare or unusual species. It also allows - demands - construction methods that just are not possible with solid wood.

9/19/19       #5: End grain bar top ...
Thomas

David, that is what I thought at first. The article states that it, "is constructed from individual fir end-grain pieces...which were sanded down to one level and finished on site," These statements caused me to assume they were thicker than a veneer. I can't see someone stating that he had to sand a veneer down to one level on site. It sounds like a statement that one made because it took a copious amount of sanding. I guess we will never know.

9/19/19       #6: End grain bar top ...
TonyF

Thomas:

The text of the article mentions Kaswell fir, which unless this is a new sub-specie of Pseudotsuga menziesii, probably refers to the flooring manufacturer.

Interesting looking product, although I have no idea how well it holds up in the long haul. Judging from the number of installations featured on their website, it appears that they have this process dialed in.

TonyF

Kaswell flooring

9/19/19       #7: End grain bar top ...
Larry Schweitzer Member

I read their web site. It is obvious that the blocks will move with changes in moisture. They recommend a gap be left at walls and covered with trim. The blocks are to be set in mastic so they will have some ability to move.
Conclusion: gluing a cross grain edge on is a bad idea.

9/19/19       #8: End grain bar top ...
TonyF

Larry:

I agree, gluing a cross grain edge strip is a bad practice. If you look at the Kaswell gallery, there are nonetheless an number of applications for tables and bars where this has been done.

I wonder if these photos are taken immediately after installation, and would be curious what these projects look like a year down the road.

It is interesting that some of the manufacturer's photo gallery images seem to be in direct conflict with their installation data sheet. I wonder if those images are where the idea for the project in question came from.

TonyF

9/20/19       #9: End grain bar top ...
Alan F.

We bough a large two piece island top from a major manufacturer, it went completely haywire

Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

DSCF4068.pdf

9/20/19       #10: End grain bar top ...
David R Sochar Member

Nearly every woodworker has been seduced into thinking they could get away with ignoring wood movement. Or, they may be so green they know nothing about it, and build anyway. Some have even photographed the work, brochured it, put it on the website, and started selling. Only after a few weeks or months did the calls come in with the problems. Consequently, nearly every woodworker has encountered disappointment.

It is hard to make the transition from floor, viewed at 5-6' distance, to bar top that is seen at about 3-5", depending upon your style (or lack of it). Floors need and have gaps. Bar tops, table tops cannot tolerate gaps without callbacks.

9/20/19       #11: End grain bar top ...
Larry Schweitzer Member

Alan, It looks like there was a very poor joint that had been filled. When the movement occurred it failed at that joint.
There are still people that think they can get away with it. It may not happen soon or even ever if there is good moisture control at that location. I'm not into risking it. The flooring company made it very clear they expected movement. A fresh coat of oil over the dirt that has filled the cracks and it is good as new.


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