Is anybody out there using Mozaik for Euro-style laminate cabinets? I am considering renting it for a while to get my feet wet with the whole computer thing. We use CAD and En route right now but I am looking for a little assistance with shop drawings and G coding.
If you are using it, how is it working out? My CNC operator spends too much time on the drafting office and I want to assist him in anyway I can to speed up the process. Does it seem like it streamlines things for you?
I would take a trip through the videos, I have used it when needed yet most of our work has been reception counters walls, custom donor boards and lots of repetitive lockers. they have a forum and the initial trial is easy enough on the pocket book, it has a very strong design capacity yet most all of my drawings are out sourced so I create one wall place cabs go nest, machine. it is some pretty doggone good software !
I looked into Mozaik a bit ago and was told there was no post for thermwood, does any one know if this is still accurate?There are sure a lot of thermwood routers out there to not build a link to them.I am sure it probably has something to do with e-cabs.
Seeing that 2 other guys have posted the exact same problem with Mozaik, namely no working post for their machine, I hereby add my name to the list.
I have a brand new SCM Pratix S12b NBM CNC.
I bought Mozaik, invested time to learn this admittedly awesome and powerful software, waited for the post, the post they sent didn't work, I contacted SCM in Italy for a solution to the riddle, they said Mozaik needs to pay them to write the post. Meanwhile I am waiting and I got conflicting messages from Mozaik as to whether they are truly motivated to do what it takes to create a working post and win my business, or am I waiting for the cows to come home?!
I even offered to pay them extra to do the post and get me up and running.
I just cannot understand the dynamic!
In case Roger or Kurt (nice guys by the way) from Mozaik are reading this post, I say it's a shame that your truly great product is not EASILY available to ALL cnc owners. Please do what you can to help us all out for our mutual benefit! And take that as a compliment.
In the meantime, does anyone know of decent and AFFORDABLE cabinet software, with automatic nesting that you can also manipulate manually, with a working post for SCM Pratix S12b, with a 7 vertical drill bank. It reads a .iso file or .pgm file which I currently generate from the primitive proprietary CAD software Xilog Maestro. Hard work programming individual parts when I do kitchen cabinets! Any workable suggestion gladly welcomed! Thanks.
Figured I would elaborate my experience.
I paid out my own pocket to test drive the design version.... I'm an employee, not an owner & likes what I saw.
I talked the boss into trying the CNC version, yet theres no post available for our machine. I've contacted Mozaik multiple times about a post, I connected them with a tech rep @ HolzHer, they're seems to be blood between the team @ mozaik & various CNC mfgr's for whatever reason.
My boss has asked about progress on the software, but 'm stuck with no response from Mozaik.if its a $$ issue, we'd be happy to pony up for the post....not sure whats going on.
Mozaik is pretty good at creating posts for machines on request. They were with us. They have a lot of posts available for a lot of machines as well. I am not sure why a CNC manufacturer would not work with major software companies to help their CNC's work. This says more against SCM than it does against Mozaik.
I have been using Mozaik for almost a year now and think its the best thing since sliced bread and getting better all the time.
I think what we are seeing now is push back from the major software and CNC manufacturers. I have struggled with crappy software for the last 30 years and the choices were either mortgage my house for extremely complex software and having to pay huge amounts for support and upgrades, or, lock into cheap or free versions that really limited my ability to customize or limit my CNC options.
I knew that if anyone ever came up with affordable software that was based on an affordable customizable platform like sketchup, it would turn the industry on its ears. My only fear now is that Mozaik will be bought up by one of the major players and either priced out of the market, or changed to only operate on one or two CNC manufacturers that fall into line. I think people should think twice before purchasing either software, or a CNC that locks them into a rigid, second rate, expensive system. Lets keep the manufacturers accountable by demanding that they allow us to choose the options we want.
I actually have faith that with the History of Cabinet Software and knowing the Players involved Moziak is here to stay !! too many are still stuck in Old kickback mentalitys.. it is a new Economy and has been for a while,
There is probably an issue between Mozaik and SCM because Mozaik is usually pretty quick to write posts on request and for free for major CNC manufacturers.
Mozaik will export a layered DXF file which you could then import into your existing CAM software and it should work fine, however, I would be calling SCM and getting on their case regarding working with Mozaik.
FYI, when Mozaik said they were "unfamiliar" with the syntax of the sample post I sent sent them (generated with Xilog Maestro, native to SCM) I contacted technical support at SCM in Italy for an explanation. They said they would be happy to help with the post if Mozaik would be in touch. I forwarded the contact details to Mozaik and waited. I offered to pay Mozaik extra money for the post, and waited again. I am still waiting, and basically gave up. I am currently looking into Enroute software, who claimed they can create a post within a few weeks at no extra charge. I just sent them a sample file with simple operations: perimeter route, route in a circle, drill a hole, park. By the way, my advice to anyone struggling with software to machine compatibility is this:
After superficially checking the features of the software to make sure it does what you need, send a sample file as detailed above if you can create one, and ask the software company to send you TEST FILES to see if your cnc actually reactes to the program. If it doesn't, get them to investigate the reason. Teamviewer is a great way for them to see what's doing on your end, and give some direction for a solution if necessary. By no means should you pay a red cent up front until the software is properly verified.
To clarify, Mozaik was definitely officially "willing" to help, yes they did respond to my emails etc, and I have no complaints about them. But for reasons not understood, they were somehow "unable" to solve the post.
Whatever the perplexing dynamics going on behind the scenes may be, as a business owner with work to produce, I must find someone who can actually deliver the goods. I'll leave the speculation to those with time on their hands. I'll let the forum know what happens in my case in due course, and hopefully it will be of assistance to others.
I can't speak about Mozaik as I have never used their products. Enroute however should be fine they created a post for my an SCM machine I worked on. There was a bit of back and forth until they got it perfect as SCM's code is less straight forward than some.
Enroute us also capable of importing batches of DXF files if you have the ATP module. So you should be able to export layered DXF files out of Mozaik and automatically create Code through Enroute. They may have to configure the ATP for Mozaik but they may already have it setup. I know they work with a number of CAD programs.
I have always found service at Enroute to be good to.
I just finished a session with the software rep from Enroute. He seems to know what he's doing and he said he will back in touch with the post. In the meantime I must say it feels good having the confidence to know exactly what needs verifying before I pay. I'll keep you all "posted."
At 125.00 per month, (initial Cost) and a post for a very expensive machine, I cannot say this would distract me, you gotta do this even if they had the post. And if they treat you like they treated me it will be worth it, I am sure if at the end of the day and it could not be done then a refund would be in order, it is a subscription based software with the history of all major cabinet making programs in its portfiolio, IE these ain't the "New Kids On the Block"
What I mean is that this experience has taught me not to take it on trust when someone says "yes sure we have a post."
I think Mozaik sent me a post they had previously successfully written for another SCM machine, so I really do give them the benefit of the doubt, but obviously something changed on the SCM end. Frustrating for all, but I have my machine already, so now I am wiser and I started my next inquiry from the post end first.
As far as paying up front is concerned, in your shoes I would ask them what's the policy in the event that no post is forthcoming, and decide for yourself. As I mentioned previously, I offered to pay Mozaik extra for the post processor, but I never received an answer.
It's been some time since this discussion was alive, but Jim Walz's latest comment jogged my memory, so here is what has happened on my end since my last post:
I purchased Enroute + ATP. They were very helpful and professional with tweaking the post processor to perfection. Now the machine works, except for a few quirks which I believe can be resolved with a bit more work.
The problems I found were with the ATP function, which is supposed to nest and toolpath DXFs from the design software. I discovered that many important nesting and toolpathing features available in Enroute do not work when using the ATP. Plus a few critical issues with the nesting algorithms which the Enroute people could not fix.
My conclusion is that although Enroute is a pretty good CAD/CAM, it will not give me the speed and automation I need to run a production oriented cabinet shop.
So, after a long hard think about a year's frustration and research, I resigned myself to spending the big bucks and buying into CV and Alphacam. It took plenty of time and ruined material to integrate it into my SCM NBM CNC, but I have been using it for real production for 3-4 months now, and what can I say, it does everything I need and then some, in a logical, powerful, flexible, and streamlined fashion. Yes, there is a steep learning curve which I am continuing to tackle, but at least there a firm basis upon which to build. So if our purpose is to make money, then it is my hope that the benefit will justify the cost.
Yes this thread did seem to be long dead! I am sorry to hear about your frustrations with Enroute, especially as I recommended it to you. I am curious as to what functions did not work correctly? I have always found the ATP module to work well and be quite ideal for nesting and generating code for cabinet parts.
No worries about the recommendation. I am sure it works for you or else you wouldn't have told me to go for it. I suppose each case is different. I didn't think the details were of interest to anyone, but as you are an Enroute user here they are!
1. Common line and daisy chain don't work via ATP.
2. The part tolerances (gaps) when you nest are inconsistent, and are not determined by the part itself, rather by the outermost toolpath. This causes unnecessary material waste.
3. The different nesting options you can choose also yield different gap results when you set the gap to say 0, or 1 or whatever. I.e., if you try to nest the same parts list using Legacy, New, Block, etc, the part spacings and sheet margins react unpredictably and there is no control. Try it for yourself and see. Bottom line is you end up wasting extra sheet material or hours of manual adjusting of the nest, or both.
4. Often manual changes to tool speeds and other settings don't "stick", and you get a nasty surprise at the CNC when parts move or burn as a result.
5. I tried nesting 6 simple rectangles that should happily fit on a 4x8 sheet, but ER doesn't rotate the parts to fit the sheet in certain scenarios, even when "can rotate" is checked. I tested this by making the sheet 8X4 instead of 4X8 and then it nests fine. And so on, bugs of similar nature.
My local Enroute dealer took my issues seriously and set up a meeting with one the brains behind Enroute here in Israel, Ran Rosin. I showed him all the above and more in depth, all of which he understood and accepted as problems. He forwarded the info to ER headquarters in Denver. But this was many months ago and last time I checked in with them there was no solution in the offing.
So the pattern I had experienced in the past, that of identifying fundamental problems with software, waiting and waiting for answers, and then moving on, repeated itself. I am not faulting the people at Enroute, they invested time and energy and displayed a willingness to help, but the bottom line is the software as is cannot serve my purposes. Cabinet Vision does.
If you can shed any light on the above I would still be very interested, as I already own Enroute and use it for the occasional one-off piece.
Hi all, it's been a while.
I have spent the last 6 months using Cabinet Vision (on trial) and spent 100's of hours painstakingly climbing the learning curve, and all our kitchens are currently produced on the CNC using CV. The reason I chose CV is obvious: It is the most popular cabinet making software in the US and perhaps around the world (?!), good support and forums, comprehensive and mature software, etc etc. Even if the price is steep, I assert if it is the only one that has power to deliver, I must bow my head and pay up.
HOWEVER, after getting aquainted with the CV world, setting up my standard construction methods, and succesfully using the software, I conclude that it is not for me! Sounds totally absurd I am sure, but I found customization to be a nightmare. CV is good at the global settings, and changing 1 or 2 individual details, but the moment you have an entire project or a part of a project that needs tweaking, the time it takes to create a brand new construction method, remember all the details buried within the wizards, and create further construction methods for say 4 cabinets in a job, does not justify. And becasue you are relying heavily on your memory for the details, it is prone to errors. Also, it becomes impossible to pass on the programming to an employee. And beyond cabinets, CV is useless. I know there are some CV geniuses like Jonah Coleman who can write long strings of programming code to manipulate the software to do things it was not designed to do, but that is not for me.
SO, I move onwards in my quest and I am now looking into the IMOS software, marketed in the US by RSA under the name Wood Cad Cam. Of course, it looks awesome and they promise you the earth, but I will only have a proper report for you guys in around 6 months from now. So long now, I am off exploring planet IMOS...
Ya'll after all these years and owning all of the the softwares mentioned here, I am still nesting and machining with Cabinetpartspro at 250.00 those few minutes my guy keys in box types and sizes is a drop in the bucket now that We are are at full machine capacity daily. this software has always been my goto after all my experiments and all it does is make boxes (But hey we are in the Box business) added another cnc and bander and will hook up next week. learned how to scale and raster a dxf along with the dxfs sent by my Draftsman so all custom cuts are Still done With Aspire.
FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards(return to top)
WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
A valid email return address must be included with each message.
Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.
You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.
WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.
Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).
Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.
Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).
Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).
Repeated Forum Abuse:
Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.
There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).
The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)
Forum Posting Form Guidelines
The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines
Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Thread Related File Uploads
Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .FLV .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
The editors, writers, and staff at WOODWEB try to promote safe practices.
What is safe for one woodworker under certain conditions may not be safe
for others in different circumstances. Readers should undertake the use
of materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB after considerate evaluation,
and at their own risk.