So I'm looking at Mozaik (among a couple of other software companies), I don't have a CNC, and would like to know if someone can confirm that Mozaik can do the following:
I believe but am not certain that it can:
1. Materials pricing
2. Labour pricing
3. Rectangular panel optimization for use on table / panel saws.
4. Cut lists for both cabinets and doors
5. Customizable case and component joinery.
5B. Multiple design style overlays, not sure what exactly it would be called, but on my current program I have all my face frame settings on design style #1, my 18mm euro cabinet settings are on design style #2, 16mm on #3, etc, so its like design parameter presets.
I believe I have the above capabilities correct.
Now, I have no idea if Mozaik can do the following?
6. Give me drawer box sizes and cut lists based on case dimensions as well as the clearances and design requirements of drawer hardware (undermount glides)?
7. Can it easily give me printable build sheets that show relevant dimensions so that I don't have to worry about calculating door reveals, placing a divider just right between drawer and door splits, etc.
8. Can it give me center-line layout measurements of hinge cup holes and mounting plates? I'll post a picture of a non-standard job where I run into this type of thing and it takes me a long time to hand calculate or layout and then transfer the measurements.
Attached is a picture of an 86" cabinet. It has a mirrored upper door, adjustable shelving, and the bottom split is a hinged out clothes hamper. My current software cannot handle a cabinet like this and its costing me too much time to hand draft these cabinets.
I'm sure Jim will chime in soon and tell you how great it is (with a picture of a Camaster). They seem like they have a great product and given their lineage, they have great potential.
However, do a search on here and see what people have been writing about the tech support. Also, the price is right now but what happens when the company becomes successful enough to sell out to a major player? CV just got sold again and all of us users are waiting with baited breath to see what that turns into.
I have been using Mozaik linked to a CNC for almost a year. It will do everything you are asking. They have a unique business model vs. everyone else in the software business. I believe that the owner developed some of the first cabinet software. He wants CNC technology to be available to even the small shops, so the software definitely is affordable and VERY capable. The cost of the full manufacturing package is so affordable, I would encourage you to give it a go. The worst that can happen, you will be out a few hundred bucks if you can't use it.
Knowing Roger's philosophy, I seriously doubt he would "sell out" to make a buck.
It sounds like you know exactly what you want, which is VERY good! I would suggest calling Mozaik and asking them to SHOW you specifically how their software would satisfy your concerns. With remote technology these days, you will be able to get onto their computer to see how Mozaik will handle your issues.
The reason I suggest this is because even though the price is low and you would not be losing much, you would be losing a lot of time LEARNING the software just to see if it will do as you require. By calling them up and having them SHOW you on their computers how your questions are answered, you avoid the learning curve as well as the expense.
I looked at this software at IWF Atlanta show this year. For the price its amazing compared to cabinet vision and others. It bases off of google sketchup so if you are familiar with that its extremely powerful for a free downloadable program. For me the downfalls for Mozaik is they told me they don't connect to any pod and rail cnc machines only flat tables. the other thing is and I didn't verify this with them but I think you can only do up to 9 rooms then you have to start a new job. But if your starting out I think this would be an awesome way to get going. It just wasn't for us. But I am keeping an eye on it I think they will keep improving it with user input.
10/18 #10: Any proficient Mozaik users here? I ...
Please allow me give you some serious advice on checking out ANY software program.
There are two main problems when shopping for software:
1. Software salesmen are trained to stay in control of the demo they give you. Generally you will receive a canned demo that has been practiced to perfection, giving the impression that the software program can do just about anything.
2. A trial version given at a nominal fee or even free is generally a waste of valuable time because you have to go thru days, weeks, or even months to learn a program just to see if it fulfills your needs. Then, if it does not, you have to start all over again with yet ANOTHER program.
To avoid both these pitfalls, may I suggest the following:
1. Call the software company for an online demo, making sure they understand you want to see how their program fits your needs.
2. Ask questions that are important to YOU, not the salesperson.
3. Take the salesperson out of his comfort zone and ask SPECIFIC questions on YOUR methods of pricing, construction, or CNC operations. It cannot be over-emphasized for you to be prepared to ask in-depth questions and ask the Software Representative to demonstrate the making of cabinets YOU make.
4. Do not put too much importance on references....generally they are handpicked and will always give a good review.
5. How easy is it to edit cabinets and change various aspects of those cabinets?
6. Make sure your questions are answered by SHOWING you how your issue is resolved. DO NOT be satisfied with a verbal response. Verbal responses do not show how the software operates.
7. You are guaranteed to require technical support. What is the charge for technical support? How does the company provide technical support? Is there a charge per incident? Are there yearly fees?
8. How does the company handle computer crashes? Are there fees involved if your computer crashes, if you lose a key, etc?
9. How are you expected to learn the software? Written documentation? Video tutorials? Classes to attend? Onsite instruction? What costs are involved?
10. Know what your needs are before talking to a salesperson. Do you need design capabilities? Shop Drawings? Bidding? Cutlists? Door Reports? Face frame or Frameless? CNC support?
11. How is the software protected? If keys or dongles are used, how much will it cost if they are broken or lost? (You are virtually guaranteed to lose or break keys!)
12 How are reports customized? Ask to see a report according to YOUR expectations.
13. Have a pretty one-of-a-kind custom cabinet in mind, and ask the sales person to show how it would be built according to your specifications.
14. If you are inquiring about a CNC version, ask TO SEE how the software handles the generation of CNC code when changes occur, such as when a new batch of material with a slightly different thickness is applied to the job, or when edgebanding changes, It's pretty common to receive a new batch of say, prefinished maple with a thickness different from the last batch you received. How are insets, dados, and depths of cut handled in this situation? If you change edgebanding, does the location of machining change as well? These are just a couple of examples of the kind of questions to ask.
15. If you are inquiring about a CNC version, how are drawer guide holes, hinge plate holes, and other hardware machining handled? BE SPECIFIC.
16. Ask to have the program machine at least one part according to how you would machine that part.
17. Although graphics are nice, DO NOT be dazzled by great graphics thinking that the manufacturing end is just as nice! The manufacturing end will be your bread and butter. Make sure it is quick, efficient, accurate, and relatively straightforward.
18. How is hardware, accessories, and pricing handled? How do YOU price out your jobs? Ask the salesman to demonstrate pricing according to your method of pricing.
19. Do not be overly concerned if the software is not particularly easy. As long as the sales person can demonstrate to you the quickness and efficiency of the software, you will be fine. You will have reason to learn the software if you know it will function according to YOUR NEEDS. Ease of use of a software program like this is usually inversely proportional to its capabilities. As long as you have good technical support and a good training program (see #7 and #9 above), you will do well with learning the software.
If these things cannot be shown to you quickly by someone who is WELL-VERSED in the software you are contemplating, then you can rest assured that it will take you much longer to accomplish the task when you have the software on your computer.
On the other hand, if these things CAN be SHOWN to you quickly by the saleperson, then you will probably be happy with the software. Know that there is no software that will do ALL that you want.....but the software you finally decide upon should do ALL that you NEED, and the MAJORITY of what you WANT.
10/18 #11: Any proficient Mozaik users here? I ...
Frank, thank you for taking the time to write that out for me. That is a good guide that I will use in evaluating programs. You are right about needing more emphasis on the manufacturing end. That is where my last program fell short. Made nice design renderings though, but I've lost lots of hours on this current project alone because it couldn't handle a bunch of the unusual stuff.
I had a sales call and you are dead on right about the canned lecture. Just wasn't for me. I will send off some requests for a visual demonstration of what their scaled drawings and assembly sheets look like, as those are two very important pieces of information output that are holding me up.
10/19 #12: Any proficient Mozaik users here? I ...
Frank, I've been really impressed with your helpful response and no BS attitude on other posts and I have been checking out cabinet pro. May I ask you a couple of questions about the software (I am assuming you are with the company).
10/24 #14: Any proficient Mozaik users here? I ...
Ok thank you. So I have been watching the detailed videos on your website outlining certain details of your software. I'm a small un-automated shop that builds frameless cabinetry and I am very pleased to see that there is a hinge center line calculator / output sheet.
1. How exactly does this work? It appears to give measurements for boring the hinge holes on the doors, but then how do you know the placement of the clip plates on the cabinet boxes. Is there a given value for one or the other components that I'm not noticing in the printout?
2. I may have missed it, but after watching most of the videos in the video demonstration section, I didn't see anything covering the accountability in the software for different types of joinery / case construction. Ie. recessed or flush backs, applied backs, thin board backs with nailer strips, rabbeted vs pocket screwed partitions and counter-top nailer strips etc. Is this in the software?
3. I offer two lines of cabinetry, one uses standard grade products and the other offers higher end domestic products. As such the pricing, joinery and material thicknesses are different between the two. Can I have two types of profiles or catalogs set up so that I need only work in one or the other depending on the job and I don't have to go and change all of my default settings each time I change the job type?
I hope these questions make sense, if not, please ask and I'll do my best to elaborate. Thanks Frank.
10/25 #16: Any proficient Mozaik users here? I ...
1. There exist as many hinge setups as you require. At the hinge setup screen, each hinge is governed by whether the door is vertically or horizontally hinged, the vertical or horizontal placement of the holes, distance from the top door edge to hinge's horiz. center line, distance from the btm door edge to hinge's horiz. center line, vert. center line distance from front edge, and distance between holes. These values can also be automatically adjusted per door size. In addition, there exists an increment to use (e.g., 32mm) from the btm hole to locate & alter the distance to the top hinge(s). This information translates to the door itself, and then to the carcase sides as well. This is one reason why we have to utilize insets of the various sides into the top & btm of the cabinet (if they exist). This is also why it is an easy task to change hinges and obtain totally different reports. The CNC version drills these holes automatically but the non-CNC version provides hinge location reports.
2. We handle most joinery by parameters defining one part's inset into another. Recessed, or flushed backs are easily set up, as are applied backs, applied finished ends, user-defined components nailers, vertical stretchers, horizontal stretchers along the width or along the depth, etc.
3. ABSOLUTELY! You can have as many lines of cabinetry as you wish. Cabinet Pro allows a virtually unlimited number of construction setups, door setups, CNC setups, material setups, edgebanding setups, dwr guide setups, pull setups, hinge setups, and hardware setups. For a given job, one simply APPLIES a given setup to the job and the entire invoice, cutlist, and CNC output changes. We have even figured out a way to have our cutlists & CNC output actually be INDEPENDENT of material thickness! You can change ALL material and their thicknesses within a job in about 5 seconds and the shop drawings, dado widths, pricing, etc. will still be correct. And then, when you are finished with a particular job, Cabinet Pro allows all materials & hardware to be deducted from Inventory so that the Inventory Reorder reports that are generated let you know in advance what to order, and from whom to order it.
Stephan, I am going to hold myself up to the same standards of what I told you above: don't believe any words from any software representative, including me, until those words have been DEMONSTRATED to you visually. You need to SEE for yourself how a program such as Cabinet Pro or any other software you are investigating will address your needs. I am taking a company on a Test Drive tomorrow (Saturday) at 8AM and would be happy to show you the program directly at a time of your convenience. I do not give "canned" demos. Our "canned demos" are the videos you watched on our website. I would ask YOU what YOU want to see, and then I would show you immediately how Cabinet Pro performs the tasks you require. So please let me know a day and time that would be good for you, and I will have you on my computer remotely to see how Cabinet Pro addresses any issues you might have. With all due respect, I think that would not only be more personalized but more appropriate than discussing details on this forum.
10/25 #17: Any proficient Mozaik users here? I ...
Frank, thank you for the detailed response. As you can tell, the three parameters you outlined are important for me and are part of my selection criteria. I didn't want to take any more of your time if these items weren't available. From here onward I'll contact you off forum. You'd be surprised how many companies I've talked to that won't fill manual setup, cutting, and assembly methods unless I purchase their upgraded CNC or automated shop version.
I'll be taking you up one that test drive demonstration offer once I get this big project delivered next week. Thank you again.
10/25 #18: Any proficient Mozaik users here? I ...
By the way Stephan, here is a screenshot taken from our website showing hinge locations on both the door and adjoining side. In the CNC Version, these holes are drilled automatically. In the non-CNC Standard Version, this report is given to allow the cabinet maker to drill his/her holes manually. Click on the heading below the drawing to make it more readable.
Yes, Cabinet Pro supports BOTH scribes and fillers. The software allows all faceframe parts to be different and any dimension you want. In addition, scribes and fillers of any dimension can be assigned to either or both ends. Cabinet Pro also allows each filler or scribe to be adjusted in both the depth and width directions. Finally, each scribe or filler may be placed along the same plane as the stile, or perpendicular to the stile.
Attached is a sample drawing with a filler on one end, and a scribe on the other. In addition, I've cut the scribe at a 22.5 degree angle to butt up against an adjoining cabinet.
Hope this answers your question. If not let me know.
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