Computer Aided Design

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Wood Cad Cam blind dado construction

10/15/16       
Benjamin

Hi all advanced Wood Cad Cam users!
I am having trouble implementing blind dado construction in WCC V11.0 and I would be grateful for some insight please!
The issues:
In the connection situation I do not see an option for a linear division when using the groove construction definition type, which essentially precludes the possibility of making the dado a blind one. Furthermore, the tenon must apparently be created via a left & right protrusion in the construction principle of the inset parts (i.e. top/bottom/fixed shelf etc) which is quite problematic when applying dados on a case by case basis on the fly. One could of course control the protrusion via a variable and then change the connection situation to blind dado, but that involves another step and is prone to error.
What I would expect and hope for is a self-contained connection situation (or connector perhaps) which can create a mortise and tenon to both mating parts without recourse to the above. If my question is not clear I give it another shot! Thanks in advance.

10/16/16       #3: Wood Cad Cam blind dado constructio ...
Dan

Maybe another shot at the question?
Are you inserting a part with the CP set to Blind dado as the connection situation or applying blind dado groove construction directly in the construction settings?
Is the blind dado connection situation based on a blind groove construction?

10/16/16       #4: Wood Cad Cam blind dado constructio ...
Benjamin

Hi Dan nice to hear from you again!
To clarify, yes I am trying to have a blind dado set up as a CP in the Connection situation, not via direct construction.
It seems that my element manager is missing the option for blind dado construction. I do have a "tongue and groove" option (which allows for a linear division but it doesn't make a tenon in the inset part: it adds an SPP instead). The other option is just "groove construction", not Blind groove construction and it doesn't allow for a linear division, nor for defining the length of the tenon, which essentially prevents one from making the dado a blind one.
Perhaps you can show a screenshot of your Connection Situation and CP setup. That would help pinpoint what I'm missing. Regards,
Benjamin.

10/20/16       #5: Wood Cad Cam blind dado constructio ...
Benjamin

...To put it another way: The blind dado should be available as a "connector" just like a screw or a cam. (This would make it available as a variable too, so you could replace screws with a blind dado for example.) One should be able to define how big the tenon is and how much it is offest (or "notched") from the front and back of the part. That's how CV and all the other programs I know are set up, which makes things really simple. I am hoping WCC has a similar logic built in but I can't seem to find it. -?-

10/20/16       #6: Wood Cad Cam blind dado constructio ...
Dan

Sorry, I've been out and didn't get a chance to get back.
I'm thinking through it as I go so bear with me. Anyone can feel free to correct me.

Groove construction will set up the machining for the receiving part. You will add gaps, front and rear clearance, change endform, etc.
A dado is created by inserting a part that has a protrusion value greater than 0 and
A blind dado is created by inserting a part with the stop(s) in its geometry.

The settings you want to control (stop distances and so on) can be handled with variables in the part geometry. You could control number of tongues with variable geometry selection if you wanted to.
You do need to enable 'Outline Geometry from Part Definition' or you will get a through dado.
You can add screws or whatever connectors to the part as a connection situation.
To change back and to say, an inset shelf with screws, you would exchange the part rather than a connection.
To do this on a wholesale level, you may need to use the variables that will flip the parts you would want to change (base top, base floor, whatever).
For new constructions you might apply your construction rule that throws the 'variable' parts in automatically so the workflow would be start job, select variable construction rule, set the job part variables and go.

10/21/16       #7: Wood Cad Cam blind dado constructio ...
Benjamin

Ingenious indeed Dan, but I find it hard to believe that WCC doesn't have a more practical (and safer) way to switch from screws to dados. Go to minute 6:30 in this RSA video and you can see they are doing it exactly as I want it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwNGL06vbvE
Only thing is the "dado" option is nowhere in sight in my element manager. Looks like RSA is using V12. I'm not in the US so I can't ask them. Maybe you can?! (I'm going to catch the attention of the guys on other forum we took part in by linking to this one. Maybe they can shed light on this.) Appreciate your help Dan!

10/21/16       #8: Wood Cad Cam blind dado constructio ...
Dan

I'm not in the US either but I have had a look at V12.
The variables and division handling is changed and looks quite different but the base functions appeared to be the same.
I believe what you are seeing in the video is a variable family that changes a set of "order values" flipping the parts in and out rather than you setting the variables one at a time. A bit of head scratching and you could set that up in 11.

10/21/16       #9: Wood Cad Cam blind dado constructio ...
Benjamin

I'm coming around to what you are saying, especially now that you mention using the "variable family." This way one could set up all the standard options for the various scenarios, e.g. dado_LeRi, dado_Le, Dado_Ri, and still retain control of the specifics. As you say, with a little patience one could set things up quite well via the variables. Thanks very much Dan!

12/29/16       #10: Wood Cad Cam blind dado constructio ...
Jim Member

I'm just wondering if any of you users have also worked with Microvellum. I'm very interested in a comparison between the 2. I've been working with MV for years and since I heard about WCC I've been wondering if it's any better than MV.

12/29/16       #11: Wood Cad Cam blind dado constructio ...
Dan

I did a 30 day demo on MV but never used it for production. That was, I think, toolbox 7 so there's been a lot of water under the bridge since for both systems.
I was looking at the time when MV had a corporate shakeup, changed their marketing system and were generally having trouble answering even simple questions.
I think what may have been a tipping point at the time was the ability to change or modify 'descriptors' that control the build in simple text files. Basically making a change on the fly that I would have needed a catalog revision for in MV.

Benjamin - Further to the above thread. The link below is a video showing and explaining how "value sets" are being used in V12 and may be of some assistance. I hope it's ok to paste it in here. I came across it this week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgUIYj1iE9Q

1/1/17       #12: Wood Cad Cam blind dado constructio ...
Benjamin

Thanks Dan yes that was helpful.
It appears V11 and V12 are essentially the same in their capability to use value sets. If you found any fundamental advantages of V12 since your post above I am curious. In particular, can you save article related variables to the global recording of that article? Can you RENAME an item in the element manager, or for that matter, an existing variable name? Is there a command to renumber articles in a project in a more logical order? And any idea how to get the article number to become part of the output file name so you know which cabinet the part belongs to? Hope you don't mind me shooting all these questions, but you have great answers!

5/26/18       #13: Wood Cad Cam blind dado constructio ...
cab man Member

Hi,

Since Woodcadcam (imos ag) is designed for more European style cabinet. It is an excellent product for Cam+dowel kind of cabinets or the cabinets without traditional joinery.

When I say traditional joinery it includes the dovetail, mired dovetail, half blind dovetail etc. These joinery involved lots programming works.

You can consider Wood CADCAM is more like a "jigsaw" system, you can freely create single parts, and then assemble them in the Article Designer, with it's build in simple joint method miter.

For kitchen cabinets, bathroom vanities, office furniture, wardrobes, and those products do not involve too much traditional joinery, it is working very well on its own.

But, it will take you a lot of time to setup one part (like top shelf) with blind dado (full dado is a bit easier). You need to apply the outline geometry to setup the shape, and the machining on a female/male part to get the groove settings.

Also, it is almost impossible to make MDF door profiles patterns, but it's unlimited to create front edge profiles.

Please do keep in mind that, it is working perfectly with connectors, but not so perfect with joints/connection.

If you want to extend the CAD ability and flexibility, other options you can consider are: Pytha, CAD+T, Solidworks Pascam, Solidworks Swood (however, these packages might be better for shop fittings, as they can deal with complex shapes).

My conclusion is, if your business is mainly use flatbed CNC and screw construction method, Wood CADCAM is good.

But if you want something with fast blindado setting and mainly do square case goods, eCabinet might be a good choice.

However, if your company, have flatbed and Point to Point, is doing shop fittings, the mentioned CAD above might be better than the others.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)