Wood Cad Cam blind dado construction

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Hi all advanced Wood Cad Cam users!
I am having trouble implementing blind dado construction in WCC V11.0 and I would be grateful for some insight please!
The issues:
In the connection situation I do not see an option for a linear division when using the groove construction definition type, which essentially precludes the possibility of making the dado a blind one. Furthermore, the tenon must apparently be created via a left & right protrusion in the construction principle of the inset parts (i.e. top/bottom/fixed shelf etc) which is quite problematic when applying dados on a case by case basis on the fly. One could of course control the protrusion via a variable and then change the connection situation to blind dado, but that involves another step and is prone to error.
What I would expect and hope for is a self-contained connection situation (or connector perhaps) which can create a mortise and tenon to both mating parts without recourse to the above. If my question is not clear I give it another shot! Thanks in advance.

Dan

Maybe another shot at the question?
Are you inserting a part with the CP set to Blind dado as the connection situation or applying blind dado groove construction directly in the construction settings?
Is the blind dado connection situation based on a blind groove construction?

Benjamin

Hi Dan nice to hear from you again!
To clarify, yes I am trying to have a blind dado set up as a CP in the Connection situation, not via direct construction.
It seems that my element manager is missing the option for blind dado construction. I do have a "tongue and groove" option (which allows for a linear division but it doesn't make a tenon in the inset part: it adds an SPP instead). The other option is just "groove construction", not Blind groove construction and it doesn't allow for a linear division, nor for defining the length of the tenon, which essentially prevents one from making the dado a blind one.
Perhaps you can show a screenshot of your Connection Situation and CP setup. That would help pinpoint what I'm missing. Regards,
Benjamin.

Benjamin

...To put it another way: The blind dado should be available as a "connector" just like a screw or a cam. (This would make it available as a variable too, so you could replace screws with a blind dado for example.) One should be able to define how big the tenon is and how much it is offest (or "notched") from the front and back of the part. That's how CV and all the other programs I know are set up, which makes things really simple. I am hoping WCC has a similar logic built in but I can't seem to find it. -?-

Dan

Sorry, I've been out and didn't get a chance to get back.
I'm thinking through it as I go so bear with me. Anyone can feel free to correct me.

Groove construction will set up the machining for the receiving part. You will add gaps, front and rear clearance, change endform, etc.
A dado is created by inserting a part that has a protrusion value greater than 0 and
A blind dado is created by inserting a part with the stop(s) in its geometry.

The settings you want to control (stop distances and so on) can be handled with variables in the part geometry. You could control number of tongues with variable geometry selection if you wanted to.
You do need to enable 'Outline Geometry from Part Definition' or you will get a through dado.
You can add screws or whatever connectors to the part as a connection situation.
To change back and to say, an inset shelf with screws, you would exchange the part rather than a connection.
To do this on a wholesale level, you may need to use the variables that will flip the parts you would want to change (base top, base floor, whatever).
For new constructions you might apply your construction rule that throws the 'variable' parts in automatically so the workflow would be start job, select variable construction rule, set the job part variables and go.

Benjamin

Ingenious indeed Dan, but I find it hard to believe that WCC doesn't have a more practical (and safer) way to switch from screws to dados. Go to minute 6:30 in this RSA video and you can see they are doing it exactly as I want it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwNGL06vbvE
Only thing is the "dado" option is nowhere in sight in my element manager. Looks like RSA is using V12. I'm not in the US so I can't ask them. Maybe you can?! (I'm going to catch the attention of the guys on other forum we took part in by linking to this one. Maybe they can shed light on this.) Appreciate your help Dan!

Dan

I'm not in the US either but I have had a look at V12.
The variables and division handling is changed and looks quite different but the base functions appeared to be the same.
I believe what you are seeing in the video is a variable family that changes a set of "order values" flipping the parts in and out rather than you setting the variables one at a time. A bit of head scratching and you could set that up in 11.

Benjamin

I'm coming around to what you are saying, especially now that you mention using the "variable family." This way one could set up all the standard options for the various scenarios, e.g. dado_LeRi, dado_Le, Dado_Ri, and still retain control of the specifics. As you say, with a little patience one could set things up quite well via the variables. Thanks very much Dan!

Jim

Member

I'm just wondering if any of you users have also worked with Microvellum. I'm very interested in a comparison between the 2. I've been working with MV for years and since I heard about WCC I've been wondering if it's any better than MV.

Dan

I did a 30 day demo on MV but never used it for production. That was, I think, toolbox 7 so there's been a lot of water under the bridge since for both systems.
I was looking at the time when MV had a corporate shakeup, changed their marketing system and were generally having trouble answering even simple questions.
I think what may have been a tipping point at the time was the ability to change or modify 'descriptors' that control the build in simple text files. Basically making a change on the fly that I would have needed a catalog revision for in MV.

Benjamin - Further to the above thread. The link below is a video showing and explaining how "value sets" are being used in V12 and may be of some assistance. I hope it's ok to paste it in here. I came across it this week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgUIYj1iE9Q

Benjamin

Thanks Dan yes that was helpful.
It appears V11 and V12 are essentially the same in their capability to use value sets. If you found any fundamental advantages of V12 since your post above I am curious. In particular, can you save article related variables to the global recording of that article? Can you RENAME an item in the element manager, or for that matter, an existing variable name? Is there a command to renumber articles in a project in a more logical order? And any idea how to get the article number to become part of the output file name so you know which cabinet the part belongs to? Hope you don't mind me shooting all these questions, but you have great answers!

cab man

Member

Hi,

Since Woodcadcam (imos ag) is designed for more European style cabinet. It is an excellent product for Cam+dowel kind of cabinets or the cabinets without traditional joinery.

When I say traditional joinery it includes the dovetail, mired dovetail, half blind dovetail etc. These joinery involved lots programming works.

You can consider Wood CADCAM is more like a "jigsaw" system, you can freely create single parts, and then assemble them in the Article Designer, with it's build in simple joint method miter.

For kitchen cabinets, bathroom vanities, office furniture, wardrobes, and those products do not involve too much traditional joinery, it is working very well on its own.

But, it will take you a lot of time to setup one part (like top shelf) with blind dado (full dado is a bit easier). You need to apply the outline geometry to setup the shape, and the machining on a female/male part to get the groove settings.

Also, it is almost impossible to make MDF door profiles patterns, but it's unlimited to create front edge profiles.

Please do keep in mind that, it is working perfectly with connectors, but not so perfect with joints/connection.

If you want to extend the CAD ability and flexibility, other options you can consider are: Pytha, CAD+T, Solidworks Pascam, Solidworks Swood (however, these packages might be better for shop fittings, as they can deal with complex shapes).

My conclusion is, if your business is mainly use flatbed CNC and screw construction method, Wood CADCAM is good.

But if you want something with fast blindado setting and mainly do square case goods, eCabinet might be a good choice.

However, if your company, have flatbed and Point to Point, is doing shop fittings, the mentioned CAD above might be better than the others.

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