CNC

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

CNC router life

10/17/15       
Larry

I've been wondering what the life span of a CNC router typically is. Measured in spindle hours of economic operation. I know there are a lot of variables. Build quality (they all claim to be HD) Electronics obsolescence, Functional obsolescence, software issues.

I'm considering the purchase of another CNC in the mid price range, $100K to 150K. I've looked @ the smaller shop machines in the $50-$100K range. They seem OK for the their target use but lack some of the features that make the next step up more productive & maybe longer lived. This has been a slow process for me.

10/18/15       #2: CNC router life ...
David Smith  Member

Website: http://www.crowescabinets.com

We did some heavy research on flat table CNC machines and it's come down to the Morbidelli M400 Full Cell 5x12 or the Biesse Rover BG Full Cell 5x12.

Both companies claim 20+ year life span. And I can tell you that I worked at a company before that had a Morbidelli 5x12 open gantry for over 20 years. The company I currently work for has a Holzher pod and rail CNC and they have had it for 15 years and it's on it's last leg. The controller needs to be replaced which is around 10k so we figured we would get a new machine that is more advanced. So I think 20 years is a fair statement.

10/18/15       #3: CNC router life ...
Gary B.

This is a good post, something I've wondered about too. We have a Weeke Pod and Rail that is 15 years old, and still running great. I can see that in my case, the machine will still have functional value for a while. The issue I suspect will be getting parts for the machine after some time. This can be mitigated if your aware of it

For instance, We had a few air selenoids for the drill bank go bad. They are a specific festo part. I ordered what I needed immediately from stiles, and ordered another full set from festo, as they are no longer being manufactured. These would be critical to have exact replacements, as they "Pop" into a larger "circuit board". I'd hate to have to retrofit a new board. Many other parts will remain off the shelf from vendors. It is key on an old machine to identify ones that will be harder to find as time goes on, and stock pile the common wear parts. I my case, even if this extends the life of the machine by a year or two it'll be more than worth it.

10/19/15       #4: CNC router life ...
Troy

I would think 20 years should not be a problem considering on higher end machines considering you maintain them. If you run more than one shift it change as well.

I work for a small closet company in the midwest. We have a Weeke that is 13 years old. Mechanically still fine. Parts are getting more difficult. Software and controllers are where things are getting bad, they are no longer supporting what we have and pushing to buy new.

10/20/15       #5: CNC router life ...
Mike

My experience is that after 10+ years, the machines outlive the technical experience of the tech support team from the manufacturers or resellers, especially with the European machines. With software changing and controllers slaved to the software, I have found myself in the position of only being able to speak with "the one guy" on support staff that has been around long enough to discuss controller x running an old machine. My current machine is 13 years old running a Fanuc and so far the support has been excellent. Had the same experience with my first Fanuc way back too(so far back it had a tape reader). Had the German and Italian models in between.

10/20/15       #6: CNC router life ...
David Smith  Member

Website: http://www.crowescabinets.com

Good points Mike!

10/20/15       #7: CNC router life ...
David Paine

Mike, that is what makes Fanuc a great platform for a controller, guaranteed parts availability for 25 years, continuity in tech support, software compatibility. This insures the value in your CNC investment way into the future.

10/20/15       #8: CNC router life ...
Larry

I've had two routers with Fanuc controls. No problems and support is available widely because they are the standard on better metal machines. They cost more up front but are worth the extra $. I also have a machine with German controllers, never again.

10/20/15       #9: CNC router life ...
Mike

David,
I am not sure how to answer that. Just experience. The code is still the same, 25 years after I started writing it, so I can read it in a text file and know what the machine will do and better still, how to edit post processors so I get exactly what I want. I can count on one hand using zero fingers the issues I have had that can be traced to the actual control. I wish I could say that about the other machines, but that is not the case. Don't misunderstand, I got hundreds of thousands of parts over many years from the others, but the overhead, and working with obsolete, non up-gradable controls were an issue.

10/20/15       #10: CNC router life ...
Larry

Long ago I was in some metal working shops that had tape reading machines, have never seen them in a wood shop. But then when I was in Architecture college we had punch cards! It took 5 lbs. of cards to do a very simple drawing. An error on one card was very time consuming to find in the stack. There was a room in the campus library where you could reserve time to make the cards. Then you had to take them to the admin processing center and feed them into the reader. They had a plotter that took forever to do a simple drawing. Amazing that anyone ever continued with computers based on that stuff.

10/20/15       #11: CNC router life ...
Mike

Yes. The good old days! I seriously miss them sometimes.

10/21/15       #12: CNC router life ...
Dropout Member

I'm all for other people giving up on good old iron.

All you need to keep them going is common sense and some good contacts. When the CMOS battery in my 1999 Biesse died I found someone who could make a new one. $12.00 and 3 hours on the phone to Europe and back in business.

Learn how to read and write G code and post processors.

The most important component of making money is keeping it. I'll pick a $25K 15 year old machine over a $200K new one any time. It's $175K less (plus financing) that I have to pay off. I'd rather keep the money in my pocket or work less.

10/21/15       #13: CNC router life ...
David smith

Since we are on the topic of router life, on a 3/8" compression bit that cuts out melamine and laminated panel, how many 4x8 sheets of material of each can i cut before i have to sharpen or replace that bit?? Ball park it, i know there are tons of things that come into play.

10/21/15       #14: CNC router life ...
Larry

Since we went to the Onsurd Marathon bits we are getting much better life. HPL laminated sheets always trash bits fast. These coated bits doubled in life over standard 3/8 carbide compression spirals in HPL. My operator is very carful to change out bits any time there is a sign of poor cut. Used to be we would only get 40-50 sheets of melamine. Now we are getting 90-100. The part of the bit that dulls and leaves a poor finish is the very end points. That can be helped by cutting into the spoil board deeper but that then requires more surfacing and shorter board life. We keep a second tool holder set with a new bit so no run time is lost with tool replacement. Onsrud just brought out a new version of the coating, we haven't tried it yet. Other companies probably have similar coatings. Comparing # of sheets cut from one shop to another isn't a very accurate comparison due to the subjective nature of "quality."

11/8/15       #15: CNC router life ...
Michael Lohnes Member

I see it as what kind of investment do you want to make? I have gone through 5 cncs each one costing no more than 5K to 8K at the most over the last 7 years changing machines only because of the technological upgrades and abilities each offered. As my skills and the production capabilities increased making still only lateral moves financially with the machines and skyrocketing with what the shop was able to provide to its customers and in the way of production it has been more than worth the investment. If I haven't mentioned it, none of these machines have been newer than 2002 as of yet. I think everyone would love to have a 200k brand new machine with all the bells and whistles as well as full tech support but for most of us with smaller shops it is just that (a dream). However find a good machine that you can learn on. Then make a pile of money with it and move on to a better newer one. Even a 1990 Shoda or a 1998 Masterwood Speedy in my case can open up possibilities that weren't there before.

11/8/15       #16: CNC router life ...
Larry

ML If your approach works for you, great. There are some costs involved that raise the cost considerably beyond the purchase price. My approach has to be different because our cost of lost time due to a machine failure is very high. 90% of our parts go through the router. While we have a plan B, it would drastically slow through put. Almost everything we make is based on what can come off a nested router. Mechanically good routers can last a long time by replacing parts. Even electronics can be fixed or totally replaced but face other issues of obsolescence.

In my search for a new machine I've concluded that a new current state of the art machine will be at least 25% more productive than our current machine. Not because they claim faster feeds and all that mostly BS. Just the reduced cycle time mostly due to the auto load, clean, unload system. There are other smaller time savings from many things. But they all add up. More tools available, more drills, less cleanup time, less dust in the air, etc...
Then there is the lost opportunity cost or looked @ it from the other side, greater total production from the rest of the equipment/shop.

3/14/16       #17: CNC router life ...
Salce Smith  Member

Website: http://www.ricocnc.com/

A cnc router from China good manufacturer also can last for more than 8 years working, except the spindle motor. As spindle is long time high speed rotating, the bearing wear down, need change.

6/27/21       #18: CNC router life ...
FORSUNCNC Member

Website: https://forsuncnc.com/

CNC routers may last up to 20 years if they get proper maintenance according to the CNC router manufacturer’s maintenance protocols. The lack of proper maintenance may significantly reduce their potential lifespan.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Onsrud Cutter Vortex Tool Company T-Tool USA
    Sponsors
    • Limtech Industries, Inc.
      CNC Routers, Machinery for Woodworking, Plastic and Other Non-ferrous Metal Machining Applications
    • Weinig Group-USA
      Wood Moulders and Knife Grinding Equipment
    • NEMI
      Products For CNC Machines - Digitizers, Tool Setters, Vacuum Pods, Vacuum Cups, Vacuum Tables, Vacuum Chucks and Software
    • Southeast Tool, Inc.
      High Quality Tooling at Competitive Pricing
    • MachineryMax
      New and Used Machinery for the Professional Woodworker
    • Safety Speed Manufacturing
      Economical Vertical Panel Saws, Panel Routers, Edgebanders and Widebelt Sanders
    • ULTI-BOARD
      The Ultimate Spoilboard - ULTI-BOARD - Specifically Engineered and Formulated for the Ultimate in Spoilboard Performance - Not Your Ordinary Sheet of MDF.
    • Carter Products
      Band Saw Guides, Blades, Wheels, Tires, Line Lasers and 2D Projectors, Wide Belt Sanding Accessories, Vacuum Holding Systems and More
    • Charles G.G. Schmidt Co.
      Tooling for Shapers, Moulders, Tenoners, Planers and Routers
    • Simantech
      New & Used Machinery, Supplies, Tooling, Parts, and Abrasive Products
    • Holz-Her US Inc.
      Custom Edgebanders, Vertical Panel Saws, CNC Beam Saws, Wide Belt Sanders, CNC Point to Point Boring Machines, CNC Routers
    • Biesse America
      Woodworking Machinery - Machining Centers, Edge Banders, Feeders/Stackers, Panel Sizing Centers
    • EX-FACTORY INC.
      Offering New & Used Woodworking Machinery including Auctions & Liquidations

    Become a Sponsor today!