CNC

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Partical board problem

9/21/18       
Ag Member

Hi all hope your doing great

I am facing a big problem when nesting double faced melamine partical board,
The top and bottom melamine are great clean not breaking but thr partical board are comming out fuzzy knowing that i an using a compression bit..
Do pcd bit fix this problem?

Hope u can help me with that thank u all

9/21/18       #2: Partical board problem ...
Bill Member

I would check your feed speed and RPM.
I have read at some point to get the manufacturer's recommendation on RPM and feed speed. Start below the feed speed and cut a test, increase the feed speed until you get an acceptable finish, keep going until the finish is unacceptable and go back.

You are likely going to fast or too slow. I do not work with PB, but that is my best advise. Doing what I suggested should also get you the proper feed speed that makes the bit last the longest.

9/21/18       #3: Partical board problem ...
TE

Website: ETSCO, LLC

Did you start using a new brand of board? I can see a significant difference from one brand/grade to another.

9/22/18       #4: Partical board problem ...
Ag Member

Its a doing this for all kind of chipboard ... This picture show my problem


View higher quality, full size image (3120 X 4160)

9/22/18       #5: Partical board problem ...
BH Davis  Member

How many passes are you doing? Sometimes a 2nd pass will clean up this type of fuzz.

Are you climb or conventional cutting? Conventional cutting will typically leave a cleaner edge.

Feed rate and rpm? Too fast a feed rate combined with too low an rpm can cause this type of problem.

BH Davis

9/22/18       #6: Partical board problem ...
Ag Member

Thank you for your responses

One pass

Conventional

16000 rpm
31 m/min

9/22/18       #7: Partical board problem ...
Dropout Member

Too fast for a 2 flute tool.

My edges start to go away above 850 IPM

9/22/18       #8: Partical board problem ...
Ag Member

Hello
Its a 3 flute bit

9/22/18       #9: Partical board problem ...
Dropout Member

Was it always like this or was it good and then go away?

I suspect you're still running too fast. I'd drop to 960 IPM and see what happens.

I find coated bits work better longer.

No PCD. The melamine paper puts grooves in the bits. Also a lot slower cut speed.

I tried 3 flutes for a bit but ended up breaking them. Back to 2 flutes at 850 IPM for me.

9/23/18       #10: Partical board problem ...
ag Member

thank you for your help
i will try to lower my feed rate
it been always like that i have an bandleader that cleans my edges but i want to try to get a clean edge directly from the cnc

so by your experience i understand that it is possible to get a clean edge with a cnc router

9/23/18       #11: Partical board problem ...
BH Davis  Member

Absolutely should be no problem getting a clean edge. One more thought.....a dull bit would cause that sort of fuzzing also.

BH Davis

9/23/18       #12: Partical board problem ...
ag Member

should i do 2 passes for an 18 mm sheet of double faced melamine chipboard

first pass climb cut
second conventional cut ??

9/23/18       #13: Partical board problem ...
Dropout Member

That's what I do.

9/23/18       #14: Partical board problem ...
Rob Young  Member

Website: http://www.cmsrepair.com

What diameter bit are you using? The chip load for particle board using a 3/8 bit is .02 to .023 per flute. The chip load for a 1/2 bit is .025 to .027 per flute. This is a great starting point that you can adjust based upon the quality you see. I referenced a link to Vortex's chip load chart for you.

If you are using a 3 flute 3/8 bit at the high end of .023 per flute you would use the following formula- 3(number of flutes) x .023 = .069 x 16000 (rpm) = 1104 ipm. This is a starting point.
The same applied to a 1/2 bit with the proper chip load would be
3 x .027 = .081 x 16000= 1296 ipm.

Here's the problem with either of these scenarios. You're CNC may be capable of cutting at those speeds in a straight line but what happens when you go around corners and arches? The machine is going to slow down while your spindle cuts at the same RPM. This is going to quickly dull your bit and before you know it you'll have bad edges.

I recently did a time study for a customer that was cutting out 5 x 7 inch pieces at a programmed rate of 800 ipm. It took 26 minutes to run the program on his machine (Busellato) I ran the same program at the same programmed feed rate of 800 ipm on the machine that I sell and it took 11:34 to run on the rack and pinion machine and 9:42 on the linear machine. The first point to note is none of the machines reached or maintained the programmed speed of 800 ipm not even the linear machine. The second point to note is that the acceleration and deceleration varies greatly from one machine to another. Depending on your machine you may do better with a 2 flute bit that allows for slower linear speeds that will be more inline with the speed your machine will run in corners. You may be dulling your bit rather quickly due to the acceleration/deceleration of your machine in the corners and arcs.

https://www.vortextool.com/pub/media/assets/chipLoadChart.pdf


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Suction Cups, Vacuum Lifters, Vacuum Pumps from Anver Corporation ecabinet systems.com Thermwood Limtech Industries, Inc.