Let me say from the start to ward off the naysayers I don't consider myself a finisher but a woodworker that finishes my stuff like many others. The project is Qt sawn white oak doors and drawer fronts, veneer panels with solid edges.
DA sanded to 220
NGR dye sprayed 2 coats
Minwax wiped on and after 10-15 minutes wiped off vigorously with paper towels until no more would come off.
Left to dry @ 60-70 degrees approximately 52 hours.
Zinsser's sealcoat sprayed, sand, recoat, scuff and top coat with 2 coats Aqulente scuffing between.
The result looks good, but to my dismay can be easily scraped off with a fingernail, there is no adhesion to the Minwax at all.
There are area's on some backs where only the edges were stained and the unstained centers are fine, even more troubling the "fade" between them where there is only a little stain has same lack of adhesion.
I had this same issue with Minwax the last time I used it a few years back, (with NC lacquer - I know, I know, should have learned) but after reading everything on this forum never really found out the problem. I suspected not wiping off enough and dry time, hence this time I went way overboard on both. The stain felt dry before I sealed it but now where scraped off feels "waxy".
I went back to some color samples I made 2 months ago and found the same, where there was dye alone, no problem, where there is Minwax, adhesion issues but slightly harder to scrape off then the fresh stuff. This sample had a waterborne sealer instead of shellac. What is different from those who have posted here on using Minwax? What wiping stain can you recommend when I remake this job?
For what it's worth I've never had a problem with minwax stains - I don't like them, but no problems. Normally I don't wait anywhere close to the 24 hours instructed, closer to 1 or 2 usually - maybe the difference here is I seal it with vinyl sealer and sand to 150/180. Sanding to 220 might be causing your problem, possibly burnishing the wood's surface if your using an actual da sander and sanding with a clogged up disc (220 clogs much faster than lower grits).
"What wiping stain can you recommend when I remake this job?"
Use the brand of your NGR stain. Their sealer and top coat. Call and ask their tecs. Get a finish schedule from them. This limits your adhesion problems.
On the minwax can it say's "stains and seals". So your sealer couldn't bite into the wood. Just to test this make a sample.
Scotch brite the Minwax. Then seal. see what happens.
Minwax stain is all I've used for the past
30+ years, I used lacquer topcoats until
just 2 yrs ago when I switched to
conversion varnish. I've always sprayed
a couple coats of sealer before the top coat.
Never had an adhesion issue.
Thank you for the replies, I don't think any one has hit on the answer yet. That there is only a problem where the Minwax is seems to rule out sanding too fine and bad shellac. Further exonerating the shellac is the same issue is seen where there was WB sealer used on samples- in fact the samples had a different top coat also. That leaves drying time, but that is hard for me to believe as even where there is very little stain there is no adhesion. It really seems like contamination in the stain - except the samples came from a different can so that's questionable also.
As a aside, I am making samples using Behlen 15 minute stain, the can says to sand to 280.
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