We have a dust problem in our finished surfaces. As soon as the finish is applied and even during the spraying process, dust particles settle on the surface. It is approximately 1 particle per square foot. So far, we have blown off the entire spray room and let the dust settle. Then the spray booth where scraped and coated with booth liner. New booth filters where installed. The floor was well cleaned. However there is no improvement. We have an air makeup with wire mesh filters. There is always positive air pressure in the finishing room. All the sanding and rag tagging is done outside the finishing room. All carts and materials are blown off before entering the finishing room. The workers believe that there may be too much air movement caused by the air make up unit blowing into the room. Any suggestions? Thank you for your input.
We replaced our three air make up units filters feeding our spray room with Merv 10 pleated filters outside ... and also put a layer of spray booth media wired to the bottom to catch big stuff...and had our ducting into the room redesigned to hold Merv 8 filters... it's a pain to replace the filters outside ... requires changing every 6-8 weeks but the feed air is clean! we also have drives on the spray booth motors to turn the fans down to make sure we have plenty of positive air in the room.... any dust we have is just from being unclean elsewhere... you guys wearing tyvek? amazing how much lint comes off your clothes... we also buy plastic sleeving on a roll from Uline and replace it very often carrying our paint hoses.... you can really get a lot of trash just from handling your hose while spraying
I am not sure that there is no problem from the spray system. However, we have it whether we spray from a cup gun or airless/airassist. All spray material is filtered before being used. We will install a new fluid line, fluid filters 100 mesh for the pump filter and 200 mesh for the gun filter.
We found out also, that we have a lot less particles in the finished parts if they are hung instead of flat finished.
Does anybody have experience with blowing pieces of with de-ionized air. Does it make a difference?
Thank you for all the feedback and food for thought. I will keep you posted.
One of those garden sprayers used to apply fertilizer works quite well. I was intrigued by the comment from one of your finishers that their might be to much air movement.
It looks like you have quite a large finishing area. With all the "surface areas " where dust can accumulate, its possible that when everything is up and running...the dust that's sitting on that surface area is being kicked up and making its way onto what you are spraying.
If that duct line with the 3 grills up by the ceiling in your second photo is the air make up unit then take a look at the inside. Even if there is a filter on the intake end there is probably still dust on the floor of the duct. I'd suggest pulling a grill off and swiping the duct floor with a rag to see what you get.
Could be a waste of time but shouldn't take long to find out.
I think that Robert has keyed into something important, the size of the finishing room. You have at least two open face spray booths. There's overspray and not 100% of it is going to land in the booth filters.
Air currents and vortices, you are still likely to have airborne dust from your atomized spray and also from the lint on everyone's clothes.
I think, also, that your workers who say maybe there is too much movement of air are also on to something.
You might explore the possibility that a positive pressure room has it's own problems and instead try some strategies to have a more dust free environment by having access points that are more air tight with stricter controls over who enters and leaves and how they ingress/egress your spray room.
Wetting the floor helps. While 90% humidity might be too much, 45% humidity might be way too dry for purposes of dust. Try 75% humidity and hopefully that's enough moisture in the air to weigh down the dust that forms and prevent other dust from forming, a byproduct of static electricity.
Thank you all for your feedback so far. We had our finishing material supplier come in and he pointed out air movement against his neck and the fact that the walls where likely not cleaned for a long time. Therefore, we will shut down the finishing room for a day and clean down from top to bottom. We are going to brush off all the walls, cabinets and all surfaces. We are in process of getting filters installed in the air make up and get Tyvec suits. I hope this will get results. Thank you for all the feedback so far. I will keep you posted on the progress.
Get a really high intensity light, shut off the shop lights, and fire everything up. You should be able to move the high intensity light around and see the dust particles in the air and possibly where there are coming from.
Hi everybody. First of all thanks a lot for all the responses. On our Graco airless/airassist system, we installed a new fluid line that was not changed for 1-1/8 years. We also changed filters to 100 mesh at the pump and 200 mesh on the gun. On the old fluid line, we constantly changed from white paint to conversion varnish to precat to sealer to primer. This system is now dedicated to clear finish material only. These changes alone removed most of the particles.
We received the Tyvec suits and will shut down the finishing room for at least a day to clean. What is the best method for cleaning the walls and ceiling. I was told that vacuuming is not an option due to the explosion hazard so for the moment we think of brushing them off. I just wonder if we not just moving the dust and it will settle elsewhere?
I liked the idea with shining a strong light in the room to see how much dust is floating around.
We had a similar problem on a much smaller scale. What we discovered was the air was so dry (10-20%) that static electricity was causing the dust to attract to product. Our solution was spraying water on floor and walls and intake filters. We don't seem to have as much as problem when the humidity is higher. (20-40%)
FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards(return to top)
WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
A valid email return address must be included with each message.
Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.
You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.
WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.
Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).
Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.
Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).
Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).
Repeated Forum Abuse:
Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.
There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).
The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)
Forum Posting Form Guidelines
The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines
Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Thread Related File Uploads
Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .FLV .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
The editors, writers, and staff at WOODWEB try to promote safe practices.
What is safe for one woodworker under certain conditions may not be safe
for others in different circumstances. Readers should undertake the use
of materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB after considerate evaluation,
and at their own risk.