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Subject: Re: Staining Knotty pine to match a 50 year old home

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Message Thread:

Staining Knotty pine to match a 50 year old home

9/9/17       
Luke Member

Ive been do work for a Renewal by Anderson window and door company. The salesmen alot of times say they can do alot more than the installers should do just to make the sale. So when the installer went to a cliets house to replace windows recently, she was wondering why they were not replacing the sills. Never in the contract never should of been done. They ripped them and slopped on some stain! I really dont know how they did it. Looks like they painted it on. Now the guy who should of attempted it or just refinished it because nothing was wrong with them is ME
To keep a long story short and get to the point is that they said they could replace a client window sills in a 50 year old knotty pine log home. Anyways im not to famiar with spraying dye stain, toners and shading. The wood sample im trying to replicate looks like theres shellac. With our pine products we sand to 150, use a vinyl seal washcoat sand , wiping stain, seal, top coat. Stain matches are sometimes light when trying to reach a darker color. I know im not going to be able to replicate a 50 year old board but im not sure if i should use.
Im not to familiar with dye stains or spaying stain in general. Any help with stain process is appreciated. I use wiping, solvent and water based stains with cat laq. CV and 2k polys so im familiar with alot of products. The whole color scheme going on with this match im trying to replicate is confusing. I hope the pictures do justice. There def. shellac. Any advise or ideas on staining process and products im open to try and use. The last washcoat, stain , seal , topcoat was very close but the cliet has unrealistic expectations. Would i get better results from dye stains or spraying stain with pine? Should i tint the washcoat? How much stain do u put in the washcoat or sealer? If i want to spray the wiping stain how much do i thin it and what are my setting for spraying. I use gravity and airless air assited.
Ive never sprayed stain. What kind of spray equipment do u all recommend. Any mixing ratios for tinting washcoats, sealers or stains is appreciated. Thanks


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9/9/17       #3: Staining Knotty pine to match a 50 ...
Pete

It looks like whatever your sample was, you may be missing a little red and yellow. And you may add a little green to shift it to brown but the color additions need to be slight. If your samples are shellac that is easily tintable with alcohol dyes added to the shellac. I slight glaze of raw umber may work well also.

9/9/17       #4: Staining Knotty pine to match a 50 ...
rich c.

The big issue matching an old finish is the yellowing in the old clear coat. I spray on a couple coats of orange shellac after the stain. Then whatever clear coat use normally use. Shellac alone is not great if there should be any moisture.

9/10/17       #5: Staining Knotty pine to match a 50 ...
D Brown

I had success by using Amber Shellac on the raw wood first then staining .Basically like a toner ,Good luck.

9/11/17       #6: Staining Knotty pine to match a 50 ...
Tyler

I always find it easier to send out a piece of the wood to my color matcher, and let him deal with the headache of getting the color right.

Otherwise, looks like a 50/50 of fruitwood and cinnamon.

Use an ambering finish/lacquer to help tie it all in, ML Campbell and Chemcraft each have them in precat Lacquer.

9/12/17       #7: Staining Knotty pine to match a 50 ...
Paul Miller

Website: http://MCCWOODWORKING.COM

I think there is a lot of good advice here. Except, I have never had good success having a paint store give me a sample. That is probably what the window company did. You need to get a little more orange tint.

Dyes can be interesting to work with. I like using dyes and adding water. If you pre-mist the wood with water, it will open up the grain and it will get darker. After you mist the wood, you have to let it dry of course.

We did something like this many years ago, but I cannot remember what we did. This can be fun. You can match for her.
Make notes.

9/14/17       #8: Staining Knotty pine to match a 50 ...
Pat

I've used Lockwood's water based dyes on knotty pine with good success. Inexpensive, easy to mix and use and very little blotching. The Honeytone Amber color is a good starting point for that aged knotty pine look.

WL Lockwood

9/24/17       #9: Staining Knotty pine to match a 50 ...
Luke Member

Thanks alot for all the feedback. Im not to f. amiliar with dye stains. Very interesting stain process once you start doing the research on dye stains and all the different ways to use them. I have a couple questions about application and stain process when it comes working with dye stains. Are you better off spraying dye stains? What kind of spray gun setup/settings are ideal or easier to use with dye stains? Right now i stain mostly by hand. I do tint my washcoats for darker stains when working with pine and also tint my sanding sealers at times. Not much though. For spraying clears i have a Merkur Graco AAA. Where should i start when mixing dyes with my sealers(1oz per qt/gallon) and how much should i thin them out if im spraying straight dye?
I attached another pic. 2 different stain matches same house. I got off the phone with the customer yesterday and they said that the stain match looks good during the day but not a night! Ive never done a stain match in the dark..lol. Any more advice on how i should tackle this stain process is greatly appreciated.. i went and ordered some lockwood dye stains.
My thoughts were to washcoat it with the honeytone amber tinted shellac mix or just straight dye stain then a washcoat. Not to sure. Stain it with a wiping stain, seal then top coat....??


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9/24/17       #10: Staining Knotty pine to match a 50 ...
Paul Miller

Website: http://MCCWOODWORKING.COM

When I have used dyes, I have always found it best to mix the dye with water. We either mist it on with a spray bottle or brush it on. Misting seems best for us. Spray it on and wipe it off. We only use dyes for an under tone. We use an oil base stain over the dye stain after the dye has dried of course. We use Pre Cat lacquers.

I first learned about dyes in 1990 from an old painter. He was introduced to me as the greatest painter in the world and he may have been. I learned more from him in four hours than I can tell.

His name was Steve Davadek and that is probably not the correct spelling of his last name. We were working for an Old Money couple and she had a collection on Navaho rugs with a deep red color. I wanted to use maple for the curling effect and Steve showed us how to put a light brown dye on the maple and then, after it dried, he brushed on Carnival Red oil base paint and he wiped it off. This was still not dark enough. He said, you want it darker? Put the stain on twice, letting it dry between coats. He said, if you use a dark stain on maple, it will be blotchy.

Of course, the color was perfect. From there, we have experimented. Yellow dye under an oil stain on Quarter sawn White Oak and you can duplicate 100 year old furniture.

Good luck and have fun doing it. They will love you for all you do.

9/24/17       #11: Staining Knotty pine to match a 50 ...
Pat

I use the Lockwood waterbased dyes both as a standalobe stain and as an undertone like Paul says. Depending on the dye color, type of wood and the end result you want to achieve, dye alone might not be enough. Some of the "primary" type colors look too monochromatic. On pine, some of the dyes that are a mix of different pigments get absorbed differently in different parts of the grain, and look pretty good all by themselves.

Another thing about dyes is that they tend to look dull and lifeless until you put a clearcoat on top. Play around with different strengths and make your samples with the full finishing schedule - sanding grits, dye, stain, clearcoats, etc.

 

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