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Water based paints for spraying?7/31
Finally getting sick of trying to make do with water based latex or acrylics for some of our products. I'm shooting with either 1.3 or 1.5mm tips on a Fuji 4 stage turbine and I feel as though I've tried just about everything. I've thinned 10 or 20%, used floetrol and XIM (neither work terribly well for leveling), but perhaps I am just too accustomed to the solvent world of things.
If we don't thin enough, we get orange peel, yet if we thin even slightly too much the paint pits, it literally leaves holes where if you look closely the paint separates on the surface all over almost as though there is oil or surface contaminants on the woodwork. I've even tried using bottled water rather than tap for thinning thinking it was contaminates in the water supply. The worst paint to try to spray (well anyways) is Benjamin Moore. It's great paint but not really designed for painting with an HVLP it seems, nor to be thinned.
I've seen other people out there have great success with other latex brands but never got solid responses on product names and application examples. Is there a water based system out there that is designed specifically for spraying or at least easier to spray than these house paints? And one that has good color options like interior paints?
Any advice would be appreciated. I'm trying to embrace water based coatings as I know it's going to be the future with the way things are going but the latex is driving us nuts for spraying. Thanks so much.
1st photo - just after spraying sample - orange peel / pitting
I feel your pain--been down the same road. I'm just an amateur who likes finishing. I work in my garage. After years of research (aka "dinkin around"), here is what I have discovered.
1.) You need to try this product: Benjamin Moore Extender. It is superior to the Flotrol and XIM products that have been less than successful for you. It's easily obtained at your local Benj. Moore dealer. Does not seem to affect the sheen. Your dealer may have to special order it, but it should arrive post haste.
I've used the Benj Moore Extender with several different house paints with great success (including Benj Moore Aura). 10 percent is a good starting point.
2.) This extender is particularly effective with PPG Break-Through, a very tough, relatively unknown acrylic that has been around for over thirty years. Again, my personal experience has been excellent with this combination of the Benj. Moore Extender and the PPG Break-Through paint.
3.) Because of a recent post on this forum, I discovered GreenLight coatings from Van Technologies. They offer a pretty complete line of waterborne products that are very impressive. I would suggest you take a good look-see at their stuff. I will be doing my kitchen cabinets with one of their clears. Not sure exactly which one yet (still testing).
4.) I may be all wet here (pun intended), but my personal opinion of turbine spray systems is pretty low. They blow hot air, and in California this time of the year that means hot dry air. This is not a good way to start with a water based finish.
I use CAT HVLP conversion guns driven by a robust compressor. After a fairly long trip through copper pipe, no hot air reaches the gun.
BTW, do you have a viscosity cup? It's kind of important to help you get dialed in.
Oh, one other thing. A professional finisher friend of mine advised me awhile back about waterborne stuff. As soon as your done spraying, walk away and don't look at it for at least 30 minutes. Indeed, it does look like crap immediately after spraying.
Hope this helps. Best of luck to you.
Try waterborne products that are specifically developed for spraying. The reason these paints you are trying do not work well is they are designed to be rolled onto house walls, or sprayed with an airless.
Look at products from ML Campbell, Target, General Finishes, Sayerlack, Chemcraft, Valspar Wood, Becker Acroma, etc, etc. These companies all make products that are all designed to be sprayed on millwork.
Forget about spraying latex with a turbine
JM is spot on! House paint is best applied with an airless system (Graco, Titan) and is for big projects.
If you have a very large compressor (need to produce 10 CFM) get one of the new 3mAccuspray 'throw-away' spray guns with multiple size nozzle heads.
Next best would be a Gravity HVLP gun by Asturo, Binks/Devilbiss, CAT, Iwata, Sata....etc. Turbines are a pain in the
Does Target do the color matching at their manufacturing plant or are you having it done by your local distributor?
Thank you for the reply.
I knew that Target made a tintable base, but I did not know that they actually did the color matching. They are local to me, so having the color match done in house would be awesome.
I really need to explore waterbased products again.
You can get good results using latex house paint if you use a graco or titan pump as mentioned and get a fine finish tip for the gun. You don't need to spend a lot of money either. Watch your hose length. A 25' hose wastes a lot of paint at cleanup.
First thank all of you for your advice, it is very helpful and I will pursue some of these leads. I wasn't aware MLC made tinted top coats, I will check with our dealer on that, I have always had nothing but a great experience with ML finishes.
In regards to the graco/air assist sprayers I am not sure that they are suited for our type of work, perhaps more larger surfaces such as homes. Also we shoot quite a few colors so a hose to clean is going to make for extra cleanup. I've almost considered going PPS once we get sorted out on the right paint anyways, since we already use the regular 3m disposable cup liners for our high pressure guns.
For those that don't like turbines I understand your points but this is my first experience with them and so far the Fuji has proven to be very capable, I just hope the motor lasts many years to justify the cost, as apposed to even a used industrial compressor. Portability is what sold me and the ability to finish anywhere if need be.
Will check out some of the brands and report back.
A side note, on the BM paints, I've noticed their lighter colors shoot like glass, and the dark ones don't. I've got one color that's almost impossible to apply without either orange peel or breakdown of the paint with too much thinning. Apparently it's the different bases they use in regal classic. They suggest regal select will have better results, but I have my doubts. It's still not designed for spraying.
in regards to the BM paint try the AURA and or the ADVANCE the advance is better suited to hand application from what I hear. IF you want to stick with these paints airless is the only way to go. I have used a titan 440i for twelve years now and I am a pretty low volume shop. Theres very little waste if you are careful when purging the line and they change color almost as fast as a cup setup. The darker colors are drying faster therefore they are not flowing out as well as the light colors. You need to use an additive with dark colors if this persists. but I have a feeling switching to airless will almost solve this
May i suggest Milesi's 2k WB acrylics for ecterior use. Easy to use and the number one exterior wood coating used in Europe. www.milesi.us