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Waterborne finish and hickory

7/23/17       
Jeremy

Hello there. I am currently building a kitchen out of rustic hickory. I chose to use a water base finish due to its clarity and non yellowing factor. I am using GF finishes including their sanding sealer first coat and satin enduro poly for the two top coats. All pieces are being sanded to 180 grit with random orbital sander with some being sanded to 220 grit. The problem I'm having is the roughness on the edges even with 3 coats applied. In between coats I am using Klingspor 320 grit sanding sponges. Before spraying using a microfiber cloth to wipe off dust and then blow off pieces with compressed air. Is there any way to help eliminate some of this roughness? Any thoughts/suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks

7/23/17       #2: Waterborne finish and hickory ...
John Member

I've had that problem with white oak. Sanding to 320 grit greatly reduced the problem. Make sure to use a fresh disk for the last pass over your work so you cut the fibers and don't just burnish the surface. Pre-raising the grain also helps, but I hate doing it. The easiest approach I've found is to use Sealcoat shellac as a sealer as it prevents the WB topcoat from raising the grain. That works if you can tolerate the slight amber tone it imparts. If you can't then I would look at vinyl sealer if you can spray solvent based and the first ideas don't work.

John

7/23/17       #3: Waterborne finish and hickory ...
Arthur grudko

John,

Why do you hate pre-raising the grain?

7/23/17       #4: Waterborne finish and hickory ...
nick

WB's and open grain wood (especially if it's quarter sawn or rift cut) is a nightmare...will the grain raise ever stop??? I've gone down the pre-wetting/sanding to 220 route the seal coat route and I was still not satisfied with the smoothness of the job...sooo...I started sealing my WB clear jobs with lacquer vinyl sealer. Yes, this won't work if you want to go all wb (it's kinda like a 'vegetarian' who eats fish) but if you want to kill the grain raise and have a smooth wb finish on open grain wood and don't mind spraying some SB, it works great.
Also of note is; the Vinyl sealer I use is not quite as water white as most WB finishes/sealers I've used but it's close.

7/23/17       #5: Waterborne finish and hickory ...
Jeremy

Thanks for the replies. The vinyl sealer does not sound like a bad idea to try. Is there a specific brand you guys prefer? I'm also guessing that since it is a oil based product, one must wait one or two days to topcoat with the water based finish? GF also recommends three coats of finish so could the vinyl sealer count as one of the topcoats? I wouldn't mind a slight amber color to the hickory but I've seen some jobs done with oil finishes and they are really dark in color when done and that's what I'm trying to avoid. Trying to keep as clear as possible so the differences in white/brown colors of wood are more prevelant. Thanks

7/24/17       #6: Waterborne finish and hickory ...
RobertJ

Be careful with grit choices....as someone has already pointed out, you may begin to 'burnish' or polish the coating with 300 or finer sandpaper. Your coating will not be able 'bite' into that layer. Also, being a vegetarian, I would never eat fish, but I would think that 'Seal-Coat' may be the answer. And, it can be cleaned up with ammonia and water! No solvent there!

7/24/17       #7: Waterborne finish and hickory ...
Tyler

We finish Hickory all the time with GF topcoats. We sand to 150g. Use a coat or two of Zinnser Seal Coat then you only have to wait an hour to top coat. It gives it a slightly warm color and it will take care of most of your issues.

7/24/17       #8: Waterborne finish and hickory ...
John Member

Arhur, I hate raising the grain because it's an extra step and often doesn't work with really open grain woods anyway. If I use Sealcoat to seal the wood I can avoid doing it. As someone else mentioned, you often have to apply two coats of Sealcoat, sanding in between, but that's still faster than raising the grain and it usually reduces the number of finish coats required. With GF EnduroVar or Clear Poly, I typically only need two coats when applying it over Sealcoat.

To the OP, you asked how long vinyl sealer has to dry before you can topcoat. The SW's vinyl sealer I've used is solvent based (not oil based) and dries as fast as lacquer. You can topcoat over it in an hour or two, just like using Sealcoat.

John

7/24/17       #9: Waterborne finish and hickory ...
Jeremy

Thanks for all the responses. I am going to try the "seal coat" on the drawers to see how it goes. If they are a slightly different color it won't be noticed against the other parts of the cabinets. I did some looking online and couldnt find a definite answer, but can the wax free shellac be sprayed? The only info I can find says it has to be brushed on. Also, some folks dilute it to lessen the amber coloring, but would it not loose some of its sealing abilities then?

7/24/17       #10: Waterborne finish and hickory ...
John Member

Jeremy, Sealcoat is dewaxed, 2# cut. It's what we are all talking about spraying and it sprays great. I don't dilute it; I spray it straight from the can. Not much sprays more easily. Try it on some scrap plywood. You'll see.

John

7/25/17       #11: Waterborne finish and hickory ...
Arthur grudko

John,

I understand the advantages of using Sealcoat to prevent grain raising, but if you want to avoid solvent coating altogether, you can try raising with a water mist, letting it dry, sanding, and spraying two extremely dry, thin coats of clear wb sealer or topcoat. Do not sand between these coats. This should be enough build to prevent grain raising.

8/7/17       #12: Waterborne finish and hickory ...
Matt

Usually rough edges (in my experience) are a small combination of issues:

1) Guys in the spray booth being too light on shooting the edges.

2) Using worn out sanding sponges to sand them.

3) Insufficient curing time, making them be "too gentle" in sanding.

Try one of the higher quality sanding pads. Best sandpaper I've had, just in terms of cut quality, is the Mirka Goldflex with the slight foam backing.


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