How do foresters and loggers avoid lyme disease?

Ben,
From what I understand about Lyme's disease, the offending tick has to be attached to its host for more than 24 hours before the host contracts the disease. Simply put, if you are sure to check yourself daily for ticks, your risk of contracting Lyme's disease is greatly dimenished. Also, using tick repellent, wearing light color clothes, and tucking your pant cuff into your boots will minimize ticks as well (some people even think garlic tablets help deter tick bites).
If you enjoy working outdoors, and think you would otherwise be happy in forestery, don't let the threat of Lyme's disease deter you. Any career will have potential hazards- learn about them and take steps to avoid them, but don't let a potential risk keep you from doing something you want to do.

Ben Ethridge

Member

Hi, Tommy. Thanks for responding.

I've read about all the things you've said at various websites in the past, but some of them don't make complete sense to me just yet. For example, how are you supposed to find a tick that's the size of a poppy seed buried deep in the hair on your head, or worse, buried up your wazoo?

Are you speaking from personal experience on this one, or is just from things you have read as well? Sorry, but I have to ask, since this is the only thing that worries me about the New England forests. I have known a couple of neighbors up here, who contracted Lyme disease. Also my dog had it.

One forester I spoke with about this, said that he pulled 6 deer ticks off his body last season. Of course, to your point, he doesn't really worry much about the disease either. Then again, he's just a kid out of college, so maybe he just hasn't been out in the field long enough to have acquired the disease...

...or since he comes from a long line of foresters, maybe his family is immune to it, like the deer. :-)

Having been an avid surfer, deer hunter (in the South) commercial pilot, skydiver (licensed jumpmaster), licensed scuba diver, offshore sailor, ski instructor and (lately) snowboarder, I've gotten pretty used to taking calculated risks in this life.

I just like to know that I've evaluated the risk fairly accurately, and have reasonably minimized it.

Ben

Ben,
I have been a professional forester for nearly ten years, but I haven't worked in the northeast, so I can't say for sure how bad the Lyme's disease is there. I work in Virginia, and while Lyme's disease is present here, to my knowledge, it's not rampant.
As far as my personal experience, during the summer I generally tuck my pant cuff into my boots when working in the woods, and check myself regularly. Personally, I don't like the chemicals like 'Off' and especially 'Permanone'- I'd rather have the ticks. In Virginia, the deer ticks are large enough to spot crawling on you pretty easily, not like the little seed ticks. If you get bitten by a tick, in most cases you can feel it in a few hours- it will start to itch.
Of course, you do have a valid concern- a person could take all of these measures and more, and still miss the one tick that could give you Lyme's disease. That's the risk you take. However, as I understand it, Lyme's disease is curable with some antibiotics and you're as good as new.
Have you spoken with your doctor or with your local health department? They may be able to give you insight on the prevention and cure of Lyme's disease.
Hope this helps.

Ben Ethridge

Member

Thanks, Tommy.

Personally, I use permethrin-impregnated clothing, and DEET, but I agree it's not the ideal solution. (The cure could be worse than the disease :-))

I'm still in the South, so I don't have a doctor up in Maine yet.

Yes, it is curable, but the problem, as I understand it, is that the disease mimics many others, and so is often mis-diagnosed as something less serious. Then by the time the mis-diagnosis is discovered, the Lyme disease has done its permanent damage.

I'm hoping that the permethrin and DEET, along with the pants-tucking, body checking, etc. will give me reasonably full protection.

With all the new medical innovations these days, I was just hoping some forester on this forum had a "magic bullet" :-)

Ben

Hi Ben,
Also a forester in Virginia (friend of Tommy's), for 5 years. Worked at a summer camp in S.E. Penn before that, and we had a lot more Lyme back home in PA than here. I have heard of people here getting misdiagnosed or not getting on the antibiotics as early as they should. Because Dr's down here aren't as aware of it. You've got to tell them, "I work outdoors, and I think I've been bitten by a tick". But if you're moving to a place where it's very prevalent, the good part is that the Dr's will be aware and expect it and screen for it. Actually, back home in PA they don't even always run the test, they just give you the antibiotics. I think the bigger risk is you just shrugging off some fatigue and acheyness and not going to the doctor promptly. If you go to the doctor in New England, I'm convinced they'll recognize it.

I'm also pretty well convinced that I find the ticks when they're on me. They itch pretty fiercely, at least for me. Sometimes I don't find them until the next morning, but I don't think any get past me.

you can get hit by a bus crossing the street also.
in n.wisconsin we have alot of lymies,i'm in the woods alot try to avoid tall dead grass or short brush, from time to time look over your pants to see if you have ticks otherthan that don't worry about it

Thought I would add a couple things here. I'm not a forester but live in the woods of MN and have found plenty of deer ticks on me, but only two that were burrowed in. Deer ticks tend to go for the waist line, i've never found one on my head. They burrow in to your skin and if they carry lymes (not all deer ticks do) you will get a perfect bulls-eye around it. I know of at least six people that have had to be treated for it one guy twice, none have any ill-effects.? If you get hit you just need to monitor it and get in if you see the bulls-eye. Deer ticks are especially thick where you find a lot of deer. Good Luck! and don't sit on a nest that's the worst!!

Ben Ethridge

Member

Just wanted to say thanks for the responses, everyone.

Jim Baldwin

Member

The way I heard it, being a forester, or logger (axeman) can be one of the most hazardous jobs a man (or woman) can do. Forget the tick...

That deer little tick may make you sick (as it nibbles into your arm) but a chainsaw kickback can rid you of both with one quick buzz!

A falling branch (or the whole tree) will squash you, your dog and every tiny tick in between. A snapped tow-cable can be worse then a torn rip-cord (since I doubt you have a reserve torso).

So go ahead and calculate the risks... Then play it safe by continuing to jump out of airplanes while standing on your surfboard, wearing all your scuba diving equipment (including buck knife and deer rifle) and land fins-flat, on the pitching, rolling deck of a racing yacht!

Seriously, these hard-hat, steel-toed professionals working this industry, really have to pay close attention and prioritize the hazards. I am sure they all go home and worry about a tick or two, but not before knocking-on-wood as they arrive.

Think about it...This may not be the thrill-seeking kind of job you've imagined or are accustomed to.

So are you ticked off now?

I used to hunt racoons at night with some hunters that were pretty serious about the sport. They would take sulphur tablets during this time of the year so ticks would not attach themselves to their skin. I never really understood how this worked, but it might be worth investigating. I would ask a physician or pharmacist for their input. One word of caution though, these things will give you the worst kind of gas.

i log and farm in NC so lyme isnt an issue but a good friend of mine lives in mid-state NY and is an avid metal detectorist. He's in the woods for dozens of hours a week on old home sites etc. To date hes had lyme three times. He's very with it but might have a few too many beers and forget to check himself that well for the ticks. Dont know this for sure. He doesnt seem to have any lasting effects from it. Hes taken ciparo a few times and one time i saw him i could tell he wasnt feeling like himself - this was when he was taking the anitbotics. He didnt get it at all this year. This might help ease fear a little.

Patrick Cassidy

Member

I was going to suggest finding a doctor you are comfortable with at your new home. Tell him what you do for a living, and that you might need to get some Abx. from time to time for it. Don't do this the first time you meet them, build some repoire between you. One thing health workers hate more than just about anything is "some Joe off the street telling me how to do my job."
Lyme tests are notorious for having false positives and negatives. To me, not worth getting the test done if you can't 100% trust the result.

Lyme is nothing to fool with.

First, there is no hard and fast test. My doctor called the Western Blot the "Gold Standard" for Lyme— in fact, New York State requires it for the diagnosis— but the Centers For Disease Control, who defined the test, say it's only for statistical purposes, that it misses a huge proportion of cases (read their website).

Symptoms are all over the place. A hundred people will present in a hundred ways. A very few will get hit so hard that they may never work again, despite years of IV antibiotics. I know some of them, it's not pretty.

If you catch it right away, I think the first 48 hours, a single big dose of the right antibiotic can wipe it out. I heard it's an 80% chance, if you like those odds (I don't). Otherwise, the three week cycle it takes to wipe out the bacterial cysts leaves me woozy and bloated, just not myself till I recover.

I've had it a few times and it's the worst I've ever felt. I was confused and making poor decisions for three months, and paying for treatment out of pocket because insurance companies are not particularly supportive on this one.

I've also been bitten a few times when I did not get it. Prompt & proper treatment, no matter how painful. Otherwise it limits you in ways you can't imagine.

I grew up in the woods, I love forests. It's hard for me to dress up to be with my woody friends. What's posted here about prevention is good— the ticks don't have a lot of energy, but they can bite quickly and embed themselves withinin 8 hours (my experience), though often it takes longer. They can't burrow through socks pulled over pants, they can't get through a belt over your shirt, but then can get under your hair or ear or crawl up your sleeves and you won't feel them. You may or may not feel itchy from the bite, and you may or may not feel it right away (though the second time you'll be much more aware than the first). The bullseye rash, a certain diagnosis of Lyme, only happens 30-40% of the time.

The upshot— be very careful, read up from responsible websites (like Lyme support groups), don't accept easy answers, and realize that the disease is very, very tricky. If you can't handle the precautions stay away. If you can, enjoy your love.

Good Luck,

Jim

Ben Ethridge

Member

Thanks for the insightful post, Jim. Sounds like you speak from long experience.

Ben

I'm with the crowd says that 9 times out of 10 you'll catch the offending tick. Seed ticks don't carry the bacteria just the deer ticks. Prompt treatment and your good.

As an aside I was listening to the radio the other weekend and they had some guys on there from the University of Virginia's Immunology department. Theses guys have traced people's development of an allergic reaction to red meat from being bitten by the lone star tick (which is more common down south). I was like great...I think I'd rather have lymes diease. Just kidding, but still sucks.

When I was a kid we never worried. I can't count how many dog ticks (size of a small watermelon seed) I pulled off of me, some of them fully bloated. We hit them with a smoldering match or a lit cigarette to make them back out.

Nowadays we know that's a big no-no, then regurgitate and inject you with bacteria. While the dog ticks don't carry Lyme, they do carry Burgdorfia and Ehrlichiosis, which are related diseases. Lone Star ticks are about the same size and carry Rocky Mountain spotted fever as well.

As more people study these diseases, some claim that it's easy for the antibiotics to miss some of the bacteria, that they can linger long term and cause troubles like arthritis, decreased nervous/brain function and comprimised immune system. There is growing suspicion that there are other related illnesses that might account for some of the variability of symptoms and difficulty of treatment.

Not to get all gloom and doom here, but it feels to me like life is out of balance and our relationship with nature just isn't right. These diseases are nothing to fool with.

And, to respond to an earlier post, I've heard of a lot of upstate New York doctors who are much more aware of the disease than five years ago. They tend to prescribe the "recommended" dose of antibiotics, which many experienced Lyme doctors say are too little for not long enough. And I'm still hearing of doctors who misdiagnose or underprescribe.

What do I suggest? DEET is a neurotoxin, so is the constant exposure worth the chance of Lyme? Dress smart, that hasn't changed. Get your spouse or special someone to check you carefully all over, who knows what other benefits you might receive.