You are not logged in. Consider these WOODWEB Member advantages:
A personal "member history" that displays your posts at WOODWEB
Your forms at WOODWEB will be filled in automatically
Create your personal "My Favorites" page
Numerous automatic notification options
Learn more about WOODWEB Member benefits ...
Black Walnut Log Value
12/30
I live in Virginia & have 30 walnut trees which are being sold from a thick grove. I have received $3,000 up front and am being told the total value of the logs which are being exported are appx. $5,700 but may be more based on the grading after they are cut. I walked the area yesterday with the loggers and know the trees, most of which will are over 16" in diameter will have several logs cut from them. I am being told I will have a list of the logs and how they are graded and that the $5,700 estimate is conservative. I am being told logs which will yield 12" boards are of far less value than logs which yield 13"+ and that the veneer logs will bring a much higher value. I have tried to contact the forestry service because I am a bit nervous about all of this but everyone is on vacation and the logs need to be cut now to fill an order. The agreement was signed back in 2008 to cut the logs and these loggers have a very good reputation in the area where I live. Still, even if the estimate is low $5,700 seems way below value. Any suggestions?
12/31 #3: Black Walnut Log Value ...
Website: http://www.powdercreeksawmill.com
What you have is seller's remorse. The condition is usually caused by making a buying or selling decision before having done enough due diligence to make an informed decision, in this case on the selling side.
I don't see how anyone on a forum will be able to tell you if your trees are worth more. One veneer grade Walnut can bring more than $5700 but they aren't common, and remember you're getting stump prices for the timber - $5700 could be a fair price, but how can anyone say without putting eyes on the trees? Even then you can get a wide variety of estimates.
If you've already signed a contract I don't see what choice you have but to fulfill your side of the obligation. Next time you'll know to get your forester and a couple of other private buyers out there before you sign a contract.
1/1 #4: Black Walnut Log Value ...
I do not regret honoring the contract which my husband signed before his death and have met with the loggers since the posting. I also have a meeting scheduled with foresters to determine what the log yield should be and have been assured by the loggers that the logs will be tagged and graded. I am sure each tree will have a least more than one log cut (some as many as 4) and believe the logs will be graded properly. Many years ago we had some trees cut - mainly oak - and the loggers were horrific! The log count was not accurate and my husband's name was forged on a check from the mill which we never received. My husband would not take the loggers to court because he felt only someone in a desperate situation would do something so dishonorable. He trusted the company we are dealing with now and I am simply trying to ensure that I cover every base I can and hoped someone would reply who could compare the various types of black walnut which can be cut from trees based on the current market. I still hope someone will who knows the market now.
1/1 #5: Black Walnut Log Value ...
Website: http://www.powdercreeksawmill.com
"The market" is not something so simple as you perceive. I tasted the vinegar in your reply JoeAnne but it was not justified. I know that the answer I gave you was not the one you were looking for, and I knew it when I was typing it, but I gave you my honest answer anyway because that's what you needed to hear. The answers you seek will be found locally, not on a forum. I wish you the best.
1/2 #6: Black Walnut Log Value ...
I think the vinegar (if there was any) was definitely justified. The question was fairly straight forward.How are you able to imagine what someone needs to hear? If you are unable to answer it then maybe your comments should be kept to yourself.
1/2 #7: Black Walnut Log Value ...
Mark,
My point was to let her know that she can't get an accurate valuation on her timber over the internet. I have seen many similar posts and often the OP will get many answers from posters who have no idea what the timber is worth. I mean, how can they? Determining stump prices is not simply a matter of looking at average regional prices.
I gave her an honest answer that I do believe was relevant and if she took my advice and looked to her local resources and put boots on the ground to walk her through her timber stand she would get the education she needs. JMO.
Whereas your entire post was aimed at telling me why i should keep my mouth shut, my posts were an attempt to point her in the right direction without throwing out some numbers that would almost certainly mislead her.
I don't mind your critique of me, but instead of just knocking me maybe you should have also attempted to offer her some useful information. In my view that would have given your post at least some value. Happy new year.
1/2 #8: Black Walnut Log Value ...
Texas,
I'd rather hear the truth as the watered down versions. For the market here, three years ago I sold my walnuts to a honest and repetuble buyer and sawyer, graded honestly and correctly and top dollar!!! At that time he was 20+ years in the business and at that time only bought and cut cherry (market already falling then) and walnut. Within 2 yrs the walnut market fell and he had to cut pallet stock to survive. He told me he could cut the walnut (except premiums) for pallet stock and be over the "markets" walnut pricing. The market is coming back around but not near where it was.
Your advice to her was honest and correct and I also wish her the best with her journey and sales contract. Some things are still locally controlled( distance to mills, top buyers and removing to/for marketing).
Pricing timber standing is gambling. Top dollar is down, cut up and gradeable. Market is that day sold.
Best wishes to all and have a Blessed and prosperious New Year,
Tim
1/3 #9: Black Walnut Log Value ...
I haved walked through my woods many times and took the time to photograph all of the black walnut trees selected by the timber company. I even took a 2nd shot of the base of each tree which clearly shows the orange numbers sprayed on to mark those to be cut. I have been told these trees are to be exported and that a sheet exists which shows the amount to be paid once the logs are graded. Thanks for all the information.
1/3 #10: Black Walnut Log Value ...
Website: http://www.powdercreeksawmill.com
It sounds to me like you're on the right track JoeAnne. If you plan to sell some more in the future, depending on the individual your state forester can be a treasure trove of free information. I have never met one that was not both knowledgeable and generous with their time and information but maybe I have just been lucky.
You can also learn much from your county extension agent, and if you have a state university nearby with a forestry they often have free and low cost services available. But for your situation in the future, I would hire a private forester consultant with a good track record in your locale, to conduct a sealed bid for you once you have gotten the information you need to make you feel as though you are in the driver's seat.
A private consultant forester will tell you beforehand what he thinks your timber is worth in the current market based on his intimate knowledge of recent local sales and the many variables involved. If none of the bids come up to your threshold you can hang on to it and try again later. As a general rule, selling directly to a logger does not net as much profit as it would if you went through a consultant with experience in conducting sealed bids in your particular region, but this certainly doesn't mean in your particular instance that you were "underpaid"left money on the table as the saying goes. I have done it in the past and the way I like to look at it is that the money I did realize was still me getting paid, and what I left on the table was just tuition.
My apologies if I initially came across harshly - that was not my intent. Best of luck and I hope you will let us know how your sale went.
2/2 #11: Black Walnut Log Value ...
It seems you are being given approx $200 per tree for 30 trees and some one else is doing the cutting, hauling, grading, and selling for you. I don't think I have ever heard of a relatively small deal paying that well. It is very expensive to move machinery and trucks.
3/26 #12: Black Walnut Log Value ...
First rule, never sell to a "timber buyer" who walks your property without permission and then comes to your door offering very little. Second, unless you are selling just a few trees or tress that you know for fact are not worth much, do not sell without a forester involved. Third rule, for valuable trees or for large lots of trees, using a consulting forester will almost always put more money in your pocket. They have the contacts and since they get a percentage it is in their best interest to conduct a good timber sale. Also, they are your go-to guy to make sure the right trees are cut and the land isn't destroyed in the process.
Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Other Resources | Site Map
Buy and Sell Exchanges
Job Opportunities and Services Exchange
Employment opportunities and services within the woodworking industry
Lumber Exchange
A worldwide buy/sell exchange for lumber and wood products
Machinery Exchange
A worldwide buyer and seller exchange for woodworking machinery and equipment.
Classified Ad Exchange
Classified advertising for the woodworking industry (for advertisements that do not include machinery, lumber products and employment listings)
Forums
Adhesives Forum
Discussing topics related to adhesives within the woodworking industry
Architectural Woodworking Forum
Discussing quality standards and production of architectural wood products
Business and Management Forum
A forum for the discussion of business topics: from sales and marketing to dealing with difficult customers.
Cabinet and Millwork Installation Forum
Discussing all aspects of installation issues encountered by cabinet and millwork installers.
Cabinetmaking Forum
Discussing 32mm and face frame cabinet construction including fabrication, casegoods design, and installation.
CAD Forum
Shedding light on the all-too-often shadowy world of CAD.
CNC Forum
Discussing CNC (computer numerically controlled) woodworking equipment, software, and automated product manufacturing.
Dust Collection, Safety and Plant Operation Forum
Discussing topics related to maintaining a safe and productive working environment.
Professional Finishing Forum
Finishing issues for the production environment
Forestry Forum
The science and art of forest cultivation and timber management, planting, surveying, tree diseases, silviculture and timber harvesting
Professional Furniture Making Forum
Helping professional furniture makers improve quality, save time, and increase profits
Laminating and Solid Surfacing Forum
Issues related to laminating and solid surface materials and processes
Project Gallery
Where professional woodworkers can post examples of their work
Commercial Kiln Drying Forum
Discussions covering issues faced be commercial drying operations that process at least 750,000 bd. ft. of lumber per year
Sawing and Drying Forum
Discussing topics related to primary processing and drying of lumber
Solid Wood Machining Forum
Discussing topics related to the machining of solid wood
Value Added Wood Products Forum
Learn how to improve your output, find new markets, and boost sales of your lumber products
Veneer Forum
Discussing topics related to veneer processing, manufacturing, and fabrication
WOODnetWORK
An electronic discussion group for woodworkers throughout the world
Other Resources
Industry News
Late-breaking news from all sectors of the wood industry
Video Library
Index of industrial woodworking related digital videos on the web
Auctions, Sales and Special Offers
Advertisers offering woodworkers discounted prices on good and services, and announcements of upcoming auctions
FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)
WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
A valid email return address must be included with each message.
Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
(return to top).
Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.
You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.
WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.
Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).
Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.
Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).
Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).
Repeated Forum Abuse:
Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.
There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).
The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)
Forum Posting Form Guidelines
|
|
Your Name
|
The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
|
|
Your Website
|
Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
|
|
E-Mail Address
|
Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
|
|
Subject
|
Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
|
|
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines
|
Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
|
|
Thread Related File Uploads
|
Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .FLV .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
|
|
|
|
Member
