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Western Red Cedar Solvent Soluble Extractives

10/26/18       
John L Member

I’m having problems with finish blistering on Western Red Cedar as a result of what appears to be solvent soluble extractives which are volatizing due to heat in combination with solvent based primers and seem to be drawing some type of extractive to the surface of wood. It is happening on 10-20% of all t&g material I’m finishing. The blisters aren’t moisture or solvent blisters.
The cedar is immature new growth. Are there solvent soluble extractives in new growth cedar such as sap, pitch, or essential oils that might be causing this? I posted a more descriptive account with photos under the professional finishing forum. Im not too familiar with the chemical composition of WRC and was hoping someone on the Forestry end might have some info on solvent soluble extractives. Any info would be appreciated.

11/4/18       #3: Western Red Cedar Solvent Soluble E ...
David R Sochar  Member

In conversation with TiteBond glue Techs, they told me W R Cedar is showing up with high extractives, enough to repel water based glue. We had been having trouble with Cedar panels coming apart, prompting my call.

I suspect your problems are related to mine.

He said 20% of the WRC coming in to the US will have the high oils.

He recommended wiping it down with Acetone until no more extractive showed up on the paper towels.

11/21/18       #4: Western Red Cedar Solvent Soluble E ...
John L

David,

Thanks for the reply.

After exhaustive research I’ve come up with this:

Tropolones are highly volatile oils found in WRC heartwood. They are heat activated and organic solvent soluble. According to Canada’s Western Forest Products Laboratory, Tropolones
interfere with the absorption and drying of oil based paints/primers on WRC.
Removal of volatile oils by kiln drying, air seasoning, by solvent treatment, or by sealing the surface with diluted varnish is considered necessary for satisfactory results. Both AYC and WRC contain high percentages by weight. I was advised that CPES/Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer would serve as an anchor coat when finishing.
I had tried acetone prior to reading your reply. It didn’t work.
I suspected oil was the culprit. Just couldn’t find too much info on it. Sounds like it relates to the issue you’re having with glue failure.
J

1/21/19       #5: Western Red Cedar Solvent Soluble E ...
David R Sochar Member

Yes, I wil bet they are the same cause and effect problems. I think it is huge, but just has not yet caught on and made it to all the small shops. The big shops have to know, but do not act like it at the moment. I know what I will do, but it will be interesting watching what the big Cedar users do.

4/5/19       #6: Western Red Cedar Solvent Soluble E ...
BH Davis  Member

I'm aware this is an old post. I don't come by this forum very often so hadn't seen it in the past.

I used to have glue failures with WRC but after some testing found that urethane glues work well. While overall I'm not a fan of these adhesives I do keep them around for WRC and other unusual gluing jobs like wood to metal, glass etc. My go to brand is Franklin as it seems to be a little more solid (less foamy) than some of the others.

BH Davis


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