Furniture Making

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Fix-a-twist for wood doors!

2/13/13       
mark

...doesn't get any hits. So, I'm looking for creative solutions. Firstly, I have to say that remaking the doors would likely be a more cost effective solution than any "fixes" I'd consider. There is, however some sentimentality at play here, and I'm endeavoring to be accommodating.
The situation is a pair of double (5 piece) cabinet doors twisted just enough to spring out their mating upper corners: mirror images, rather intriguing. It's too much to fudge it with the hinges, so I'd like to see if they could be made flat. Upon inspection, the doors are in fact twisted. All stiles and rails are straight, and the cope and stick joints are true, however, the stiles display twist within themselves. So it appears as if my job is to untwist 2 or 4 (not sure how many are exerting force) boards, with the added advantage of the use of the rails as lever arms.
The only off-the-shelf solutions that I know of are the Hafele truss rod system, and diagonal ties with a turn buckle. The former seems to effect cupping ( or twist as a result of oppositely cupped stiles), and the latter primarily effects racking. Am I wrong about this?
My idea at the moment is to make a lever arm spring to counter-act the twist in the stiles: a stainless rod, inserted into the stile with two arms welded at the rail centers. The arms would be set at an angle that creates an opposite twisting force when attached to the door. A lot of work for sure, but besides this, is it a bad idea? I'm thinking of starting on the hinge sides.
Is there a better solution?

2/13/13       #2: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
shawn

JUST MAKE NEW!!!!!!

2/13/13       #3: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
mark

Right. Wish I could, but the job is to repair the existing doors... even at a higher cost than replacing them.

2/13/13       #4: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
JR Rutter  Member

Website: http://www.harmonicdesignworks.com

They won't allow small neodymium magnets to be sunk flush into the high door corners and a small block with flush magnets or steel plugs as a door stop (or into the faceframe)?

2/13/13       #5: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
mark

JR, nah; I'm just not into fixing it if it's not fixed in the end. There's a good amount of spring to it; maybe 5 lbs push at the center knob, closing 1/2" of protrusion. If it was a matter of what a magnet could do without you noticing it, then I'd just adjust it out with the hinges.
I'm really trying to flatten the door here, a flat door will fix the installation.

2/13/13       #6: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
JR Rutter  Member

Website: http://www.harmonicdesignworks.com

Gotcha. So with the ss tension rod, will you be slotting the back face of the door and epoxying the rod in and/or covering it with matching wood? I think that with the right size rod, there would be enough opposing force, but it just seems pretty invasive and potentially much more obvious looking. I suppose that it could be decorative if you rout it out and fill with contrasting epoxy the whole way around the frame...

2/14/13       #7: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
JeffD

Well since I haven't tried that scenario before this is all just conjecture, but I don't see it working. Assuming these are roughly 3/4" or so doors and you have to get them to twist back against what is now their natural 'set' by 1/2" with a steel rod inserted into the 3/4" material? I just can't imagine that working?

I don't have a solution and to be honest I'm not sure there is one that keeps the doors intact. What I have done is taken twist out of passage doors by removing most of the offending stile, leaving all the joinery intact, and gluing a new straight piece in place. It doesn't sound like your client would go for this, but sometimes contrary to popular belief the customer is not always right;>)

Hopefully some of the others will chime in with ideas as well.

good luck,
JeffD

2/14/13       #8: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
David R Sochar Member

Website: http://www.acornwoodworks.com

I would run a diagonal spline from corner to corner on the back of each door. The twist will make for a 'high' spot in the center of the back of the door, so the spline should run across that from one 'low' corner to the other. If you have to, joint a slight curve in the spline to pull the door flat. You can experiment by just clamping wood to see what it will take. Once you have it, screw it in place. This may not work if there is a weenie 1/4" panel to push against.

Alternately, let your customer know that setting difficult parameters to a job will increase the cost exponentially. Does he/she let their clients set their work parameters? Your costs to experiment and do research will all be a part of the 'job'.

2/14/13       #9: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
JR Rutter  Member

Website: http://www.harmonicdesignworks.com

This is what you mean by the tension rod, right?


View larger image

2/14/13       #10: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
ThomasFR

We have "de-warped" doors of various styles & construction, lift lids, panels & such with dry heat & appropriate over-reversing the warp to allow for spring-back. Success rate 75%+ on "easy" panels. Twisted rails or stiles are the most challenging & have a lower success rate, some requiring compromise. Procedure is multiple heat lamps spaced so as to heat the target area till too hot to hold one's fingers on the underside more than a few seconds. 90% of these were finished panels. It's amazing how many finishes can survive that heat without blistering (don't contact the face, finish gets very soft). Obvious risks are are scorching or blistering some finishes, & de-lamination of glued up stock.

2/14/13       #11: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
mark

That's the idea, JR. If I can get reasonably sure of the basic concept, I've considered a through-bore type installation: drilling the length of the stile, then intersecting at the rails from the hinge side with the little arms. Obviously, there would be some trickiness involved in the preloading.
There are other ideas here to consider now as well. I'm attracted to the diagonal approach, as when you lay the piece on a table it's hard not to think about diagonals.
Thanks all. No decision yet, so keep it coming if you have other ideas.

2/20/13       #12: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
B.H. Davis Member

I would love to see photos of the final solution (if there is one -:)......)

BH Davis

2/25/13       #13: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
Chris

Planofit from hafele?

Catalog Page

2/26/13       #14: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
mark

Chris, I mentioned the Hafele hardware in the first post. Never tried it, so let me know if my understanding of what it does is wrong.

And now for the really simple solution!
1. Run the door on edge through the tablesaw, cutting a kerf through the center of the stile to within 1/16" of the panel groove.
2. Cut a kerf-sized bit of material to fill the resulting slot.
3. Spring the door into the opposite twist, and glue the stile back together along with the new center laminate.

Postscript:
I did this on both doors on the hinge stile, springing the door opposite to the same extent of the original twist. One came out perfect, the other no change. I did the second one again, this time with double opposite twist. Perfectly flat.
So, I assume that on the first one I was working on the stile that was exerting force, and on the second I was working on the opposite stile. Anyway, all good, and no finish work on either face. A simple solution that doesn't necessitate purchasing some spendy bit of hardware... Even though I was really hoping to sell you all a bunch of those springy things. Thanks all.

2/26/13       #15: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
JR Rutter

OP delivers! Thanks for the postscript.

4/7/13       #16: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
Michael Moore

Good solution. Well done.

4/28/13       #18: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
Joe Romero Member

Really a wonderful solution after a long discussion and I must say it was worth this discussion and I have learned here some more things for me. I hope mark got the perfect solution. I thought to suggest him for fiber doors, but I did not as I can see he is emotionally attached with this wooden door. Am I correct mark?

7/2/13       #20: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
Jack Briggs Member

Variations of that tool are still available, but with the doors today, the framing is more likely to break under the stress rather than straightening the door. That works for solid wood doors, the type without framed panels.

Cabinets door

7/20/16       #23: Fix-a-twist for wood doors! ...
Ryan Richards Member

Website: http://caldwells.com/

You may want to check first the site I have included above, it is in fact the door stores that offers various types and design. One good thing is that you can request a custom made one that suit your needs. Depending on your preference, you can even check their doors that is being on sale from overstock, old and vintages, used, brand new and a liquidated, all are great stuff.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)