Cabinet and Millwork Installation

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Accounting for twisted cabinet install

9/2/12       
Chris

Over the years it has become obvious that a "twisted" wall means twisted uppers if you don't shim correctly. My question is how do I determine where to screw cabinet tight to wall and where to start shimming? Having a solid background in finish carpentry an analogy/example of this problem is out of plumb walls when hanging a french door. What I was taught is to pull a string from each corner of jamb and move legs of jamb and when string touches at center the plane of the two jamb legs are now parallel. I'm just wondering if there is such a technique for determining where to start shimming for hanging frameless.

9/2/12       #2: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
Dave Edgerton  Member

Darn! I actually seriously never thought of the string idea for passage doors. Learn something every day! As for your question I usually run a level all over the wall and find the point that is the furthest in and furthest out of the plane of the wall and then try to fudge the shimming so it is not too obvious. Start fastening near the furthest point out of the wall plane.

9/3/12       #4: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
chris

running the level all over the wall would be better than what I am doing now, which is pretty much nothing...find level, snap line and hang

9/3/12       #5: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
mastercabman

You can start by driving a screw at top of cabinet,then check your cabinet if it's plumb.
Most of the time you will need to shim out the bottom.If not,drive a screw at bottom and back out the top screw and shim.
You can alway check for squareness by measuring the cabinet.
Top right corner/bottom left corner should be the same as top left corner/bottom right corner.

9/3/12       #6: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
fs

establish an axis line paralell to the base cabinets. Set pls 180 on said axis line...find the spot on the wall closest to the line, shim cabinets to that point parallel to the axis line. Installing the bases first helps with this method, also I like using a flat cleat on the uppers...they hang but you can pull them or push them as needed. Most projects I am on have established axis lines that each elevation have to be parallel to for coordination for other trades, symmetry etc..

9/3/12       #7: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
Leo G  Member

Website: http://www.lrgwood.com

I use lasers to determine what the cabinet needs.

If you plan on putting the cabinet up only one time your options are very limited.

9/3/12       #8: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
chris

I really dont know why that didnt cross my mind. thanks. I'll try it

9/4/12       #9: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
Gerry

I Struggle with this also. I install my base cabinets first so I am considering building a support system that will allow me to assemble all the top cabinet together on the top of these adjustable supports then push them tight to the wall & shim where they don't touch the wall. This is all hypothetical at this point :)

9/4/12       #10: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
chris

Good idea in theory Gerry.
I recently installed some Ikea cabs for a cheapo tenant improvement job. I have to say, the metal rail system has some sweet advantages. ie. hanging rail shows you where the humps in the wall are, the bolts sticking out of the rail for the cabinet allow you to quickly lift and hang the cabinet in place and slide it over, and only the bottom/top of cab touch wall so there is no interference with the back of cab touching wall. Also, no missed the stud screws with 3 fastcaps next to each other. Only complaint is the white caps for the hanger doohicky on inside look barf ugly. Other than that thuper dooper thystem.

9/4/12       #11: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
Gerry

I like the idea of the track hanging system but have not tried it. There is a new product on the market called a shim screw.
http://www.grkfasteners.com/en/TOP_1_2_information.htm
I think the laser & these screws could also be a solution to this problem. The problem is sometimes the cabinets are so tight to the ceiling you can't get a taper shim behind them at the top & the shim screw could resolve that problem.

9/4/12       #12: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
Bill

I found the "new" part about Gerry's comment interesting .... it's been decades since I've used them, but the picture at the link he posted is what I've always called "jamb jacks" .... they're absolutely butt-savers when installing french doors - you place them at the hinge area of the jamb where the door stop will cover them up, hang the doors, and tweak the jamb jacks so all reveals are perfect. Best thing - if the house moves, and the doors go out of whack, you pop the stops, tweak the jacks, and look like a hero.

Never used 'em on cabs, though, but in theory, they should work the same.

Now if speed and cost is not an issue, they might just the ticket, but I would sure guess they cost more, and add time

9/4/12       #13: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
Gerry

Everything old is new again.
Maybe just new to me ;) I had not seen anything like them before.

Gerry

9/4/12       #14: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
mastercabman

There's also a screw called JAMO that does the same thing.I think it's a little cheaper than GRK product.
I have tried to use them before and did not care for them.This was over 10 years ago.

9/5/12       #15: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
mark

What Leo says is true. I, however, just plan on installing twice. Once for scribe lines, and then for good.

11/4/12       #16: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
Chaim

Here's a cool trick that I saw on Gary's web site "this is carpentry".
Use drywall screws as shims.
First check the wall with a long level and add drywall screws along the bottom and top of your cabinet instal as shims then screw your cabs into the studs.
I believe the trick was used for installing trim but it could be adapted to many applications.
Chaim

11/4/12       #17: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
Chris Tomasi

man...what a simple trick (that I learned from baseboard inside corners) but, duh, didnt think of using for this application.
Thanks. I will try this next time

3/26/13       #18: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
Joseph D. Christman  Member

Website: IntegrityDesignBuild.com

As Dave said, run your long level along the walls and look for humps/dives, as well as identify out-of-plumb extremes. (Just like you do on the floor)

Whenever possible, I like using a rabbeted cleat system that I mill from europly (usually 1/4"x1/4" tongues on 3/4" material.). The advantage of a rabbet vs a "french" cleat with angled surfaces is that subtle variations in flatness won't affect level. It also makes it much easier to pull the uppers back down if necessary.
Of course, I still anchor through the cabinets into the studs once everything is set.

2/22/19       #19: Accounting for twisted cabinet inst ...
Pat Gilbert

Good thread, I learned some stuff.

I have recently been running into this problem, I think because now I'm installing in remodels and the houses have settled and tweaked the walls.

Has anyone used the the fasteners Gerry talks about?

As an expedient I like that idea Chaim talks about from Gary Katz.

The laser is a great idea but not everyone uses a laser .

I have used the hanger systems in commercial but with steel studs they are overkill. It would not be efficient to retrofit stock cabinets to them though.

Thanks guys


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)