Cabinet and Millwork Installation

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Installing up to a stacked stone fireplace

9/5/18       
Builderbob Member

We have a job to install built ins on both sides of a stacked stone fireplace. I is captured on both ends (one end being the fireplace) and will be European cabinets with a 1 1/2" top.There is so much irregularity and taking the top in and out to scribe would not be a great working solution. I suggested having the rock removed and put back in (which I think would give the best results) but, the tile guy said he doesn't want to ...lol
Any suggestions are appreciated!


View higher quality, full size image (1512 X 2016)

9/6/18       #2: Installing up to a stacked stone fi ...
Matt

I've seen people scribe cut mantels around the rockwork (3/4" thick ply, in box shape, to give the appearance of a 4" thick lumber slab). It was an exceptional amount of work obviously and not one for the faint of heart. But that's what they paid for.

In your situation, I would not try to tie the cabinets in with the stone. I'd put a decorative (painted/stained) plywood slab on the sides that join the fireplace, and leave an intentional gap of about 2-3".

If they don't like that, double your price and scribe cut that filler around all that rock, it can be done.

Just make your filler a piece of 1/4" and use a scroll saw and spindle sander to dial in an acceptable fit.

9/6/18       #3: Installing up to a stacked stone fi ...
Builderbob Member

Thanks, for the cabinets I agree, a scribed piece could be done. The 1 1/2" top would be another issue especially since it is captured between the fireplace and another wall.

9/6/18       #4: Installing up to a stacked stone fi ...
Bob Carreiro

Have done a few similar scribes. Use 1/8” ply to scribe at the top height and the spacer style. Once satisfied fit, transfer to the cab top and spacer style.

If this is wall to wall, use 1/8” ply strips, 3-4” wide hot-glued together with corner bracing as needed to duplicated the walls anf fireplace. At the shop, transfer the u-shaped scribe to the cab top.

9/9/18       #5: Installing up to a stacked stone fi ...
Matt Calnen

Anyway to have the tile guy cut the stone out where the cabinet goes? Looks like fake rock so it should cut easy. Then just put in a filler that goes behind the rock and have him regrout to the filler. Set the counter top height to one of the joint seams and that will tuck under as well. In new construction we usually put in removable blocking for the stone guys to go around so when we would have a similar setup. Hope that’s an option.

9/11/18       #6: Installing up to a stacked stone fi ...
Adam

The builder or customers have no clue.

As Matt mentioned they should have screw a 2x4 to the wall exactly where the cabinet would land.

Those are definitely the work rocks I've ever seen. I understand that the front of the wall is supposed to be highly irregular, but the sides?

The biggest problem of all is the cabinetry style. Basic blah euro stuff up against the Fred Flintstone mantle. Do they expect you to use a 3" scribe cut to nothing in places against a perfectly flat/straight euro cabinet?

No one had a clue. I can scribe that air tight. Its going to cost you. Its going to be scribed out of 3/4" x 4" wood.

As an alternative you could install you cabinet tight to the rocks. Use a couple of cans of poly spray foam to fill the void(scribe) and paint it.

9/13/18       #7: Installing up to a stacked stone fi ...
rich c.

First I'd throw a level up against that to get an idea of just how wide the scribe has to be. Then mock up a piece of solid stock that defines the edge of the box, and have a meeting. That scribe might have to be 3" wide!

9/18/18       #8: Installing up to a stacked stone fi ...
Family Man

Cabinetry should have gone in before the rock...too late now. Somebody is going to pay. They didn't do it right, they are the ones that should pay.

9/21/18       #9: Installing up to a stacked stone fi ...
MarkB Member

No way on cabs before the stone. That makes NO sense. In any accurate installation the trim would always go in after the stone. You wouldnt set cabs in a rough framed structure and let the masons lay up to the cabs.

Its your job to scribe to the stone. We do this all the time. Its tedious and has a cost associated but thats just the way the world works.

If you were working in a true stone home (yest they still build them) would you set the door trims before the stone masons build the walls? No.

Get out your dividers, your saber saw, coping saw, and rasps, and scribe your fillers into the stone. Its not very hard but requires patience and perseverance.

The HGTV world of installing finished flooring under cabs, putting down base after tile with ugly gaps below, doesnt apply. If your in that world just slap a piece of S4S againsts the rock and caulk it with a 55 gallon drum of Alex.

9/21/18       #10: Installing up to a stacked stone fi ...
Family Man

Shocking! I've been doing it wrong and been getting fantastic results once a week for fifteen years. I'll change immediately!

9/24/18       #11: Installing up to a stacked stone fi ...
Adam B Member

Mark B,

You are definitely in the minority on this. 26+ years of residential new construction, and not 1 time have I ever been involved in a project that intentionally installed stone on a fireplace prior to the cabinets. Install cabinets first using a wide stile/filler. Install stone directly up to the installed piece and be on your way.
I guarantee this will yield better results than the method you describe.

10/20/18       #12: Installing up to a stacked stone fi ...
Bruce H

I have the builder mock up the cabinet end with cdx plywood and then rock is set. my cabinet slides into this pocket. A little planning goes a long ways. You are either going to grind the rock or scribe. Either way they pay.

3/21/19       #13: Installing up to a stacked stone fi ...
John Bishop  Member

We have done this for a long time. We never scribe to stone its just too deep a cut and once done it looks silly to see the piece stepping in and out. Keep a straight line it looks more professional and gives it more of an architectural look.

Best of luck

D. John Bishop

3/22/19       #14: Installing up to a stacked stone fi ...
Pat Gilbert

I haven't done it this way but it sounded ok to me as an option

Scribe in to the main parts, it looks stupid to scribe in to every part, then back fill it with mortar like you would with caulk


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)