Sawing and Drying

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Bugs

10/29/16       
Heinrich Member

Website: http://Heinrich Spillmann.com

So I thought that the wildlife in wood would die off at 130 degrees in the kiln. Today I found these two bugs slide under the bark of a junk of wood which was in the solar kiln for 5 weeks and the temperature in the kiln went up to 140 minimally, but the bugs survived


View higher quality, full size image (1587 X 1306)


View higher quality, full size image (1452 X 927)

10/29/16       #2: Bugs ...
rich c.

I thought you had to hold 135 degrees, at the core of the board, for 24 hours to sterilize. I understood the kiln had to be at 150 to get that core temp. I don't know what 140 degrees minimally means.

10/30/16       #3: Bugs ...
Ricky

I was thinking that 133 degrees was the temp you needed and it did have to hold over that for several hours to get to the core depending on thickness of lumber. I found that in my solar kiln I moved my temp gauge away from the DH and in the shade area the temp was a lot lower there. I would think that's the true temp.

10/30/16       #4: Bugs ...
Heinrich Member

I build a plenum in the kiln (it's a small kiln, only about a 150 qft) with a pretty good solar fan for air circulation and no direct sun inside, it's all in the dark, so the temperature shouldn't differ all that much throughout. But I started this piece at the end of September and even though my temperature gauge shows that the temperature went up to 140 degrees there is no telling for how long and probably just not long enough to penetrate the bark and wood all the way. This might be one of the short falls of a solar kiln.

10/30/16       #5: Bugs ...
Tennessee Tim  Member

Website: http://www.tsmfarms.com

From most of the reading I've done on solar kilns the temp will get to the heat you need BUT it CAN'T maintain it long enough to get to the core as needed. Because my heat source in my DH kiln pushes it's limits to get the 135* needed I hold mine for min 24 and prefer 48 hrs to insure the temp creeps to the core ( I push up to 4,000 bd ft). Add a wireless weather station to your kiln that records it's data, mine records every 3 hours. It allows me to scroll back and see the recordings and fluctuations if any. I monitor the furthest point from heat to clarify correct temp readings. I think one of mine was around $125.00 BUT well worth the money!!!

I think you'll find it hits 140* but not long enough to sustain to core.

10/30/16       #6: Bugs ...
Gene Wengert-WoodDoc

Although the air was 140 F for a brief time, it is likely that the wood was below 130 F, especially inside the pile and on the side that the air leaves the pile...the exit side.

It is also tricky to accurately measure solar kiln air temperature in most kilns due to direct and indirect exposure of the sensor to sunlight, but not in yours. Also, the collector and the air around it can be hotter than the average air temperature inside the pile.

Heat travels from the surface of the lumber to the core very slowly. Faster when the wood is wet, but then the surface will be at the wet-bulb temperature and not the dry-bulb. With nearly dry wood, the wood is a great heat insultor, so heat travels very, very slowly.

Note that the grub shown in your picture needs moisture to be active, so the wood was still fairly wet. They cannot damage or eat dry wood.

The second picture is one of the anobiid beetles, and they like wetter wood also.

11/2/16       #7: Bugs ...
Heinrich Member

Gene, that is the part that surprised me, both the beetle and the grub where directly under about 1/2 inch of bark and I would thought that the heat would have penetrated that deep, but apearantly not for long enough. It sure seems like the little buggers are tougher that I thought.

11/2/16       #8: Bugs ...
Gene Wengert-WoodRoc

Just remember that wet wood is at or very close to the wet-bulb temperature which could easily be 100 to 125 F.

11/3/16       #9: Bugs ...
rich c.

Bark is an excellent insulator.

11/3/16       #10: Bugs ...
Gene Wengert-WoodRoc

For example, with 50% relative humidity, the wet bulb is 21 F cooler than the dry bulb, so at 140 F in your case, the wet bulb and wet wood temperature would be 119 F.

11/13/16       #11: Bugs ...
Heinrich

Hmm, thanks Gene, when you put it like that it makes sense. I guess for the drying process the solar kiln is great, especially since my work yard is totally off the grid, but for the debugging I'd have to find an other solution, maybe build a second electric kiln nearer to the grid.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)