Sawing and Drying

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Remove bark before or after drying large slabs

11/5/16       
Jodi Member

Hello,
I'm a new member here, though I've been to the site many times. I have just had a friend saw up a massive walnut tree into thick slabs for me. The slabs are mostly 3 1/2" thick, 3' to 4' wide, and 10'-6" long. I have put two coats of anchor seal on the ends and plan to coat the few knots that are on the sawn faces. I will air dry them in a barn with plenty of air circulation and hope to build some nice tables with these in a few years (or more 😕) The bark seems like it will come off easy now while it is still wet. I think the bark would be much more difficult to remove after the slabs have dried. I'd like to keep the sapwood as white as possible and reduce the chance of mildew growing and bugs boring into it.
Do I risk checking on the live edges if I remove the bark now? Would I be wise to leave the bark on while they dry? Any suggestions or tips would be appreciated! Thanks.

11/6/16       #2: Remove bark before or after drying ...
Tennessee Tim  Member

Website: http://www.tsmfarms.com

Jodi, From my experience with drying is....I personally attempt to leave the bark BUT there are drawbacks...... it can/will attract more bugs and also it doesn't always stay on, other factors on bark staying on. IF it is slipping off now, remove it while it is easy. Checking on live edges... I've very very seldom seen checking there, it is usually mostly end and the sliced side of grain due to it dries quicker/ losses moisture causing shrinkage in those areas which causes the checks. check out my website, I definitely don't have the size of slabs as you had cut but maybe something that would give you ideas. I haven't updated lately due to being Blessed with much work in my other business.
The main thing ADing is make sure it's flat and very supported. You DON'T want it to try too quickly either. If in a old barn I recommend spraying the ground near and around the stack for bugs (common to be in the post and framing in my area anyway).

11/6/16       #3: Remove bark before or after drying ...
Mark

Jodi,
I dry large slabs like your walnut here in Western Oregon, so have some experience. I would agree with Tenn. Jim that if the bark is loose it should be removed before drying. In general, trees that are cut down in the spring and summer retain the bark more tightly than fall and winter cut trees. You will not cause any checking by removing the bark and it will reduce insect activity.

I also would caution about placing the slabs into a barn. It is important that the slabs get plenty of airflow through the stack, but if the air is fairly dry the wood may dry too quickly, causing defects. Here in Western Oregon the winters are extremely wet so the relative humidity stays high, while the summers dry. I try to have most of my sawing and initial air drying occur during the wet winter months which favors very slow (if any) drying. Then, during the late winter and transitioning into spring the outside air slowly starts to dry out which provides a gentle drying rate for the wood. The most critical part of the drying process is from green to around 20% wood moisture content, so this initial slow drying is critical to success especially when drying thick slabs. By mid to late summer, the wood gives up the most moisture to the dry air and then in the fall the drying rate slows again with the rains. If you are in other parts of the country the wet and dry seasons are reversed (cold dry winters and humid hot summers) and the rates of drying (which are a function of the relative humidity in the air) may be different. So, if you place the slabs into a barn, place the stack sideways in a breezeway or near an open door to get reasonable airflow through the stack. Do not cover the stack with a tarp as this will disrupt the airflow and cause mold and poor drying.

I let 3" and thicker walnut and oak air dry on stickers for at least 4-5 summers before going into the kiln. Special wood requires time to dry properly, so be patient.

If you do a search of this forum on the topic of drying walnut slabs you will find more on how to dry and a few photos of finished works from slabs (including a few of mine).
Best of luck.

11/6/16       #4: Remove bark before or after drying ...
rich c.

How are you going to get plenty of air movement inside the building? Telling us where you live will help get better advice.

11/7/16       #5: Remove bark before or after drying ...
Jodi Member

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses. I will go ahead and remove the bark now while it is easier keeping in mind that the edges will be more suceptible to impact damage. With the little bit I've stripped off so far, it looks great - it's pretty easy to get it right to that perfect live edge.

I live in central NY, in the finger lakes region. I live on an older (no longer operating) dairy farm with a rather large complex of barns. The particular area that I plan to sticker the slabs is in a concrete barn - the floor is concrete (ground level), the walls are concrete and cinder block, and even the floor above is built of massive concrete girders which held a hayloft. In fact, I have a few thousand board feet of lumber up above - where the hay used to be kept - stacked and stickered. It has been a great area for drying wood. Plus it was about the only place in the barns with a flat, level floor. The barn gets plenty of airflow. The slabs will be about 20 feet inside of a large doorway that is usually left open. There won't be any direct sunlight on them.

Having said all that, I'm not sure how easily wood boring bugs can travel. The old post and beam sections of the barn have had their share of powder post beatles. My other lumber seems to be ok with the xception of some red oak that has/had larger borers in the sapwood. I assume that they were present before it was sawn. I haven't seen any other bug activity up there.

Are there signs that I should look for (other than end checking) indicating that they are drying too quickly? Any other suggestions or comments are much appreciated!
Cheers


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11/8/16       #6: Remove bark before or after drying ...
Mark

Jodi,
Sounds like you have things under control. Your wet and dry seasons are the opposite of what we have in Western Oregon, so early rapid drying this winter may be an issue. The problem with looking for signs of the wood drying too fast is that if you can see any, it is too late to correct. Besides end checking from rapid drying, the wood will develop what is known as honeycomb. This happens when the wood on the outside drys and shrinks around the wet core of the wood. At first, the wood will develop stress fractures throughout the surface of the board, but as the core begins to dry, the wood on the outside will relax and the cracks will close back up. So, you usually will not see any obvious problems with the wood until you cut into it and see all of the stress fractures throughout. White oak is particularly susceptible to this type of drying defect, but walnut and any other hardwood that drys too rapidly will honeycomb.
Note that the outside of the top slab in the stack will be exposed to dryer air than the rest of the slabs which will result in more drying defects on the outer slab's face. So, if you can place the best slabs lower in the stack and either a lower grade slab as the top piece, or some green boards set on stickers to cover the top slab. Also, the center slab which contains the core of the log will be prone to cracking along the very center of the core. This is because the cells of the first few year's of the tree's growth are made up of cells that are different than the cells of the tree at older ages. This juvenile wood has a greater radial and tangential shrinkage rate than the adjacent wood cells which causes the two tissues (wood) to tear apart from each
other. There is not much that can be done about this except to avoid the core when slabbing.
One way to deal with the powder post beetles is to spray boron (farm supply store) onto the sap areas of each slab. This helps to discourage powder post activity although not always completely. The sap layer in walnut is much more susceptible to insect damage than the heartwood. Walnuts produce many toxic chemical compounds which inhibit insects, rot fungi and even other plants (juglone compounds for example). These compounds are concentrated in the heartwood and much less so in the sapwood.
Great photo! Your helper reminds me of when my daughter used to "help' with the sawing. Seems like yesterday, but it was over 20 years ago....
Take care.

11/8/16       #7: Remove bark before or after drying ...
Tennessee Tim  Member

Website: http://www.tsmfarms.com

That's COOL set-up you got to dry in!!! I didn't have storage when I started....as a matter of fact I just filled the last one I built 28'x44'...AD ing takes up some space BUT I believe it's the BEST long term for the wood and worth it. NORMALLY (in a drought) I'm in a good area that drying is stable with good temp and RH swings that work those cells and relieves stresses very well. We didn't cut as much this year due to being Blessed in my construction business so I didn't risk as much drying to fast.
I agree with Mark...great lil helper!!! Be safe!! Thanks for the pics!!!

11/8/16       #8: Remove bark before or after drying ...
rich c.

It's very easy for powder post beetles to move within a structure. Definitely treat the slabs! I'd check the piles of lumber you have in there already if it was mine.

11/8/16       #9: Remove bark before or after drying ...
Jodi Member

Thanks guys. I will definitely get some stuff to treat the wood against bugs. I appreciate all the advice!

11/8/16       #10: Remove bark before or after drying ...
Gene Wengert-WoodDoc

Wet walnut is not subject to infection by the lyctid powderpost beetle, which is the one that infects dry wood. There are other PPB that infect wet wood and they can be controlled by fairly rapid drying. We seldom worry about these other PPB as they have only a small opportunity to get into wood and do damage.

Also, all the PPB spend most of their time deep inside the wood, so surface treatments with insecticides do little or no good for control. However, what really helps is making sure that the wood is not exposed to the insects by making sure the surrounding area where the wood is drying is total free of wood and wood debris, other than stickers and 4x4 and roof covers. These exceptions shoud be kiln dried from time to time to make sure they are clean.


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