Message Thread:
weinig rebate cutter, advantage? removal?
10/30/14
Hi. My moulders first bottom head has a rebate cutter installed. The head is a full length reversible insert type. If i want to change to other types of cutters like a spiral or a steel backer carbide cutter head can the rebate part of the fence just be removed? What advantage does it actually have anyway?
Thanks
10/31/14 #2: weinig rebate cutter, advantage? re ...
Website: http://www.mirror-reflections.com
Craig Great question, Older machines 80's or 90's used to have an adjustable infeed fence, what I mean is, just before the right spindle, on the infeed straightening fence you could loosen a bolt and adjust the fence's cutting circle to the cutter heads cutting circle, it provided great support for milled lumber. Then they eliminated that style of infeed fence and cut it shorter, it left a greater distance of unsupported lumber during milling from the end on the infeed fence to the right cutter head, roughly a few inches. The rebate cutter supports this issue, some people will tell you to remove it, that it does nothing. But look at what it cost to replace it or buy it new. If it didn't serve a purpose, the manufacturer would have saved money on production and would have removed it. The machine, would have cost you less money to purchase. In my opinion (we all know about opinions), leave it where it is installed, it will help you, but.... you're the owner do what you thinks is best. I have attached an article to help you understand how to align it if needed. Good luck Have a good weekend!
Article
10/31/14 #3: weinig rebate cutter, advantage? re ...
So it really just helps with a few inches of support? AFAIA US sold weinig moulders are not even equipped with the rebate function and in the EU they are.
I want to get away from insert type bottom head, they just aren't very practical or ecomical. Mine is 270mm wide knife with about mostly 30% usage.
I can't see any other option but to remove the rebate fence to use any other style of cutter, unless I get special tooling made..
Thanks
10/31/14 #4: weinig rebate cutter, advantage? re ...
I suspect the reason they do this is that in Europe they run a lot more smaller lengths that here in the US. and need the support.
I agree spiral is more economical, but you could alway swap the insert with a top head (if you have one) 270 mm is too long but you could cut it to make it work on top after you have utilized it for the bottom, just a idea.
Enjoy your weekend Craig
10/31/14 #5: weinig rebate cutter, advantage? re ...
Personally and professionally I have seen little to no advantage to the rebate fence/cutter arraingement. I would not recommend it when buying a new machine.
With that said, removal is not as simple as popping off the small rebate fence.
Machines equipped with this fence do not have an adjustable lip on the long adjustable infeed fence in front, as the fixed rebate fence provides support close to the right vertical head as the workpiece enters the machine. When you remove the small fence you will be left with a large gap between the end of the infeed fence and the right cutterhead, insuring snipe on the inside.
The long and short of it is: If you remove the rebate fence you will have to either have a machinist alter the existing infeed to include an adjustable lip (probably the least expensive option) or buy a new one from Weinig of the correct configuration.
Damn those unintended consequences, but unlike the government, you and I have to deal with them :-(
Best of luck
Rob
11/2/14 #6: weinig rebate cutter, advantage? re ...
By the way, didn't pay much attention to prior posts before replying- Anyway, Hat Tip to Russ for pointing out the issue of the gap in his first reply.
11/6/14 #7: weinig rebate cutter, advantage? re ...
You should be able to run other heads with your existing rebate cutter without having to remove anything. You might need to add a shim between the head and rebate.
If any new head is the same diameter as what your currently using where would the problem be? Sorry for my ignorance it's been a long day!
11/6/14 #8: weinig rebate cutter, advantage? re ...
Craig what Wienig moulder do you have?
11/6/14 #9: weinig rebate cutter, advantage? re ...
Hi. Its a powermat 1200
11/6/14 #10: weinig rebate cutter, advantage? re ...
The rebate fence which is essentially part of movable straightening fence doesn't move, it stays in line with the first right head. Putting a cutter head on with no rebate cutter can be used if the infeed fence is set at zero but when its moved back there will be a problem as the unmoveable part of the fence gets in the way... as there is no rebate groove on the timber to ride where it should.
Make sence?
11/7/14 #11: weinig rebate cutter, advantage? re ...
Ok sure. If you remove the fence you might find a "step" in the bed plate depending on how much the bed is worn in that area.
The rebate theory works good but it's a pain to keep them maintained. The Spurs get neglected, get dull and cause problems.
Experiment and see what happens.
2/4/15 #12: weinig rebate cutter, advantage? re ...
Hey Craig,
I'm guessing since you have a Powermat, it must have the HSK on the 1st bottom? I run a Powermat as well, but it is spindled on the first bottom. One thing you can do is buy a spindle adapter and run the traditional spiral head with separate rebate cutter tooling. You can go this route for a little less than $2,000. I did check into it at one point myself, and the fence w/o rebate cutter was quite pricy, but I can't recall how much exactly, but I doubt it was much less than the spindle adapter option.
http://tooling.weinigusa.com/product-p/3239120151k.htm
http://toolin g.weinigusa.com/product-p/xxx630205.htm
http://tooling.weinigusa.com/product-p /53016003.htm
2/4/15 #13: weinig rebate cutter, advantage? re ...
I have hsk spindles but I convinced management to order a hsk spiral tool with a machined on rebate cutter. Expensive, and still hasn't arrived!
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