I am looking for some help on how to make up custom hold downs after final top head on a moulder as it comes out. I have lots of different profiles that require special hold downs and seems like the ones I have made to help hold profile down so I end up with some light chatter unless I crank it down tighter.
So looking for ideas on how other make up custom hold downs or are you using the reverse cut outs from the cnc template maker machine where it is made out of a solid plastic material. Would like something to can be used for multiple profiles if possible or if I need to make 1 for each profile that is needed. Please include pictures if possible or links to view ideas. Thanks to anyone who has some advice on this subject!!
A good low budget solution is a combination of a modified steel shoe and shop made pads and rails.
You will need to have a steel shoe fabricated to plug in to your existing assembly, my example is for a Weinig Molder. The shoe is 25mm thick vs the 40mm of a standard shoe. You will also need to have rows of holes (not shown), countersunk at top, drilled through it for attaching the bottom wood pad. The wood pad will make up the difference of the full thickness of the factory shoe. This will allow you to use your counters if you have them.
The pad will pick up the thickest part of the molding (minimum radius). You need only to measure the offset or the depth of cut between the two points, mill out a rail the same thickness and pin or screw it to the wood pad above, catching the lower point of the molding. In most cases a simple square rail as shown will work, however you can certainly shape them to rounds or “v”s etc. as need be.
Note: If your machine is a weinig they should have the plates in stock.
Weinig also has a cassette system which is excellent if you can afford it- you can contact them for more info.
There is a variety of ways to do what you are asking.
Weinig make a two step pressure shoe which would help for some profiles.
Rob's suggestion is also a good one.
Solid plastic pressure shoes are also a good idea if the profile doesn't have many high spots. They can be expensive to make however.
Rob is also referring to a infinite reverse pressure shoe. You can google it. The company that makes them won an award a few years ago. I saw one on Ebay recently. As for how well they work. I don't know. I have never come across anyone that has used one. Maybe some one here has and will comment.
Shaner You might want to read this recent article we wrote on how to make a custom pressure shoe. It gives you step by step instructions on how to make these shoes. The other two suggestions are also great ones that have a proven success rate. Whatever you decide they will all work well Happy new Year to all. Rob, good to see you still posting your information is always top notch quality.
Perfect. That really helps. I have tried a few ways on my own but never seem to work as well as I want.
I will also contact Weinig to just see what they have and costs.
Pretty sure making my own for all the different profiles is way more cost effective.
Russ, I am always on your site and totally just over looked this article because I am pretty sure I have not read this one from you before.
Thanks again for the responses and will get on this soon.
Just to clarify, I am not referencing the "infinite reverse shoe" if that is what it is called. I saw that fixture several years ago, thought it was too clever by half- I did not have the opportunity to personally try it so I will leave it at that.
The system I referred to is a sophisticated version of my shop made pad and rails. Weinig has the info if interested.
I have used several methods for holding work pieces.
1. Custom nylon pressure shoes
2. Felt pressure shoes(these can be mounted onto either wood or aluminum)
3. Counter hold down(use a piece of the moulding and flip it over onto the running work piece). You can make it a little thicker to improve the rigidity of the hold down.
4. Split shoe. This has a two section ability, so you can hold 2 areas of the moulding.
I wanted to chime in and say that the best thing I have found for this is to have whoever makes your knives make a reverse set of knives and template so you can run an exact opposite copy to fit perfectly over your finished piece. This is the same principal as having the nylon shoe made, but doing it this way costs about half as much and you have the ability to make a lifetime supply of reverse shoes! :-) Obviously if it's just a one time run, or something that you hardly make this would probably not be the way to go, but for profiles run often and in long runs, it really is the best way IMHO.
To comment on the Weinig cassette system, save your money!! In theory it sounds good, but for the $10,000 price tag it's not worth it! Aside from the cost, it really does not work like one would think it should. We tried it out quite a bit when we first got it and it never once worked out for us as good as the previously mentioned method. That said, if you must have one, I know where you can get one for substantially cheaper than from Weinig. ;-)
As far as the "infinity reverse pressure shoe", the company that makes them has since went out of business and Weinig owns the patent now. From what I heard, they were in the process of redesigning it so it could be a "plug and play" option for Weinig moulders. They do work pretty awesome though! Here is one on ebay now:
FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards(return to top)
WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
A valid email return address must be included with each message.
Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.
You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.
WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.
Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).
Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.
Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).
Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).
Repeated Forum Abuse:
Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.
There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).
The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)
Forum Posting Form Guidelines
The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines
Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Thread Related File Uploads
Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .FLV .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
The editors, writers, and staff at WOODWEB try to promote safe practices.
What is safe for one woodworker under certain conditions may not be safe
for others in different circumstances. Readers should undertake the use
of materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB after considerate evaluation,
and at their own risk.