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better (older) rip saw - mattison or diehl?

3/2/18       
the google

i'm looking to upgrade our grizzly slr to a mattison or diehl saw. i'm hoping to be able to achieve glue line rips and to glue directly from the saw. we cannot do this with our grizzly now.

between mattison and diehl - which is the better saw? i've spoken with diehl and dealers of both saws (that favor mattison saws), but cannot reach a conclusion. i know diehls can produce a hollow joint. will a mattison saw do the same?

we mostly glue up table tops, with lengths ranging from 5-10' and thicknesses up to 2.5".

3/2/18       #2: better (older) rip saw - mattison o ...
Bill

I assume you are talking used.

I do not believe Mattison is still in business Diehl still is. They are also very helpful on the phone. I would go Diehl.

If the chains were not swapped side to side regularly and/or the lubrication system was not maintained a Diehl will not rip glue line quality. Both the chains and Races would have to be replaced which is very pricey.

I bought a lightly used Diehl and we rip glue line daily. It makes a beautiful joint.
Diehl I believe buys used machines and rebuilds them. If you are thinking new you should inquire.

Good luck.

3/2/18       #3: better (older) rip saw - mattison o ...
David R Sochar Member

I have had experience with 4 Diehl saws and 1 Mattison. The Mattison and 2 of the Diehls were beat on daily, but the Diehls still ran pretty well.

Diehl saws are made in Wabash In, less than 100 miles from here.

When I needed a ripsaw, I did not need glue line quality. I bought a used one at auction and spent almost as much getting it here as I did the for the saw. We had checked with Diehl off the serial number, and they could tell me the service and parts records for the machine. It was moderately worn, but the chains and the chain race were in good shape, so it should rip well - on paper.

We added a good laser and had a tech come look at it. He said the only thing needed was to replace the motor bearings, which he did in about 30 mins. Shutting off the motor let the arbor spin for about 4 minutes as it wound down, pretty impressive for a 1978 saw.

The best part is it ripped like a champ. It would never break a sweat with 8/4 Oak all day, or even 10/4 Mahogany and Poplar. We did have to watch the auto oilers as they had a personality of their own, but that was all. Be sure your saw maintenance people can supply and maintain good saw blades. We found different blades gave different results.

And we found the edge produced was fine for gluing, up to about 12' or so. There is some operator learning with the saws to get the best yields and speed.

If I had space and need, I'd buy another in a minute.

3/2/18       #4: better (older) rip saw - mattison o ...
the google

dave,

what did you think of the mattison? i like it more only because there is less chain maintenance (not having to swap sides) that any previous owner could have neglected, causing less than acceptable glue joints for me to experience (without having to totally rebuild the machine).

i'm expecting a lot from either machine and maybe too much from a used saw. i'm looking at $10k saws that appear to be well taken care of, or i can buy one at auction with the expectation to put $8-$10k into it to get it to perform as i would like. there seem to be more mattisons in this latter camp, but i know sourcing parts can be difficult.

3/3/18       #5: better (older) rip saw - mattison o ...
Bill

I don’t think I would buy a machine made by a company that was out of business unless it was an incredible deal and the machine was in incredible condition.

I did a quick search and I believe Mattison went out of business in 94? The newest machine you could get would likely be 30 years old. The average out there would be 40 or older. The chains do wear out no matter how well they are taken care of.

The chain has points like the top of a pyrimid. When the point gets flat, say 1/16 square the chain is done. I think there is a document somewhere with the spec I guessed at 1/16”. You need the chain to hold the wood or it is dangerous.

Good luck!

3/3/18       #6: better (older) rip saw - mattison o ...
David R Sochar Member

The Mattison was beat to near death, so my experience is not good, but that is not the machine's fault.

We did a chain swap on a SL 55 with about $7,000 of parts (1986), and it was not too bad. 2 men, one day. The saw was like new, and Diehl was available by phone to help us on one point. Those points are sharp on a new chain!

I suggest a Diehl, with history, set it up and run it (concurrently, if you can). Then call a tech in to look see. Worst case is $10,000 total. Much less than new, and will run 3 shifts a day for 30 years without batting an eye.

3/3/18       #7: better (older) rip saw - mattison o ...
Bill

I don’t think I would buy a machine made by a company that was out of business unless it was an incredible deal and the machine was in incredible condition.

I did a quick search and I believe Mattison went out of business in 94? The newest machine you could get would likely be 30 years old. The average out there would be 40 or older. The chains do wear out no matter how well they are taken care of.

The chain has points like the top of a pyrimid. When the point gets flat, say 1/16 square the chain is done. I think there is a document somewhere with the spec I guessed at 1/16”. You need the chain to hold the wood or it is dangerous.

Good luck!

3/3/18       #8: better (older) rip saw - mattison o ...
the google

thanks guys. the dealer i'm talking to about the mattisons says that he's got a connection or is the connection for parts for those machines. he can get/make new chains. diehl already quoted me around $10k for new chains and the mattison chains would be around the same. the saws i'm looking at are around $10k with "good" chains. i'm thinking about making a trip to the dealer to see both saws, diehl and mattison, run. worst case, which is pretty bad, would be to purchase one of these and then to have to replace the chains.

dave - with the sl55 - how did this perform for longer glue line rips? diehl has recommended a sl52 or 750 for longer glue line rips, but what is available in these now isn't impressive (or beyond my budget). the sl55 from 360 degree machinery looks like a nice machine with new bearings.

3/5/18       #9: better (older) rip saw - mattison o ...
David R Sochar Member

We started out trying to glue up Poplar in the rough for 12" wide boards, 16' long. We needed to make about 200-300 l/f per day. It was not going well, as the lumber would creep while being ripped. Called a tech, and he looked and said the chains had never been swapped in the life of the machine. The points were gone on the chains, and could not hold the lumber.

Bought new chains and races, put it all in and it worked beautifully. QW also got our good saw people in to check out the equally abused blades, and replace or renew. The blades do matter. Expensive does not equal performance. Diehl can also advise you on brand name saws and services that know what they are doing.

I think we had SL55's, then a 52, as in the photo taken during shop set-up. The latter was not used for glue ups much. Mostly for a few molder blanks and general lumber busting to rough width. In 2002, I paid $1500 for the saw on auction (3-4 other saws were in the same auction, driving the price per each way down), another $1500 for transport, $1500 for bearings, blades, tech visit, and electrical connection. So we were operational for less than $5K


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3/5/18       #10: better (older) rip saw - mattison o ...
Mark Elliott Member

Dave,

What purpose did that overhead attachment serve on the back of the saw overhanging the fence?

I have never seen anything like that. I have an SL 52 re-built by the factory and love it.

Mark

3/5/18       #11: better (older) rip saw - mattison o ...
Bill

Looks like the electrical hookup that will bolt to the floor?

3/6/18       #12: better (older) rip saw - mattison o ...
David R Sochar Member

Bill is correct. That is the saw as it came off the truck. The separate electrical box was on a stand.

3/6/18       #13: better (older) rip saw - mattison o ...
Mark Elliott Member

Yes, now I see it after you point that out. I wasn't expecting that.

Thanks, and have a good evening to the both of you!!

Mark

8/17/18       #15: better (older) rip saw - mattison o ...
Chas Member

Loved my Mattison 202, a very accurate glue joint but the chain wore out . replaced it with a Diehl sl52 which works great but if I really had a choice of both saws in really good shape , i would go with the mattison. it just cut a little bit straighter.


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