Veneer

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Titebond Cold Press glue for profiled doors

9/6/13       
art Member

I am laminating 10 ml pp Anigre veneers on 3/4" MDF that will have a slightly profiled edge (Amana 49550 table edge) in a vacuum bag. Both faces will be pressed at the same time for balancing. Edges must be pre-edged on our Holzer EB prior to the edge detail. I've made several sample doors with Titebond II, but would like to know if their "cold press" is more ideally suited here. The cost of these veneers has got me jumpy, as well as bad experiences of checking as cited in other threads, so this also is a concern. Any help and input is greatly appreciated.

9/6/13       #3: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
rich

Have the samples worked? If so run with it. I personally prefer to use urea in a vacuum bag,never had a problem with it
Titebond is a water based glue that cures as the water evaporates, urea dries by chemical reaction. Theres no air in a vacuum, so although the titebond will eventually cure in a vacuum, there's no guarantee it will reach it's full holding potential.

9/7/13       #4: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
art Member

Thanks, Rich. Although the samples have held up, they really haven't had the test of time. Which UF brand do you prefer and is one easier in application and more effective than another? I know that the resorcinol resins leave a heavy line, so I can't use them on this one.

I'd still like to know about the Titebond Cold Press and why it would be used for veneering, but when I read that it is an "economical" substitute for contact cement I stepped back with questions. I'll use a good UF glue for this project. The reviews on it are hard to contest.

9/7/13       #5: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
JeffD

I use the cold press for bag veneering and haven't run into any problems with veneer not holding up. I do leave parts in the bag longer than I would normally clamp in open air. Usually shoot for about 2-1/2 hours. I'm not even sure where and when we came up with the time line, but its worked for years. One of these days I should call TB just to see what they have to say about cure times in a vacuum:>)

good luck,
JeffD

9/7/13       #6: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
art Member

Thanks, Jeff. The longer set time in the bag is really going to extend the job duration, even though I have the smaller and larger bag and two pumps. The samples we made we left in the bag for about an hour, but from what I have been reading the PVA glues will soften with heat. This project could be subjected to interior temperature change as it is inland from LA and in a "pool house" ( a mansion by my standards). I'll run a sample with the cold press TB and see how it performs.

9/7/13       #7: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
JeffD

Pool house? If this means it will be exposed to constant warm moisture I would think about moisture resistant mdf and something more water resistant like resin glue. All my work is interior so no experience with pool houses:>0

If you have 2 pumps you can press more than 2 bags if needed. A manifold and a couple extra bags would double your output for fairly small upfront cost;>)

good luck,
JeffD

9/7/13       #8: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
art Member

One of the pumps is for a solid surface system and has several ports available, so maybe that extra bag would be a good purchase. Good idea!!!

The internal ambient moisture from this huge pool (think Hearst Castle) could be a huge concern. For starters, the UF choice over PVA will help, but the core might indeed be a problem even though the room is on the second floor and some distance away. I just hate call backs...even after 5 years :(

9/7/13       #9: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
Rich

I used to use cascamite by Borden on all my vacuum bagged parts, and they went into boats,never had a problem.I would have to say that's a pretty moist environment. If moisture is that big of a concern, I would go with a good UF and Medex. You won't lose any sleep.

9/7/13       #10: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
Rich

The reality of it is, any moisture problems that happen start from your edges not from your face,ever notice how entry doors to homes always start to rot from the bottom? That's because a lot of people paint the face and back of the door and fail to seal the bottom. put a good 1/8" wood band all the way around the doors with a good quality glue, and I guarantee, you won't have any problems.

9/7/13       #11: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
Rich

if pre band is not an option, then take your e-band pre glue it with titebond, let it 90% dry then iron it on. You'll have a strong as hell, moisture resistant band.

9/7/13       #12: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
art Member

I just veneered crotch mahogany to a Chippendale style bathroom vanity using the iron and it worked great, but there is a tremendous amount of lineal footage in this project.

Do you have any thoughts on Dorus glue cartridges for automatic edgebanders? I've been using this machine and Dorus since 1994 and the bonds have been consistently strong, but you've got me wondering about the longevity in a possibly moist environment. The anigre wood tape is by Framatech (typical 600 ft. rolls).

9/8/13       #13: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
Rich

I personally do not have any experience with that particular e-band system. When it comes to wood,one of the biggest enemies is moisture so no matter how many precautions you take and how well a piece is constructed there is always a slight chance that a problem will arise in a moist environment. The only approach we can take as craftsmen is to inform the customer of the potential problem that the environment in which the piece will be placed in may at some point have problems. It's really the customers responsibility once the piece is installed to care for and protect it. Furniture is just like anything else, cars, TV's,refrigerators,etc, they break down over time, that's what contracts are for. I know I went a little off base here, and I understand everyones concerns when it comes to these issues, but with all the changes that are going on with the materials due to environmental concerns, FSC, LEED,NAF, all we can do is continue to educate ourselves and our customers about what we do and do our best. Only problem is, theres a lot of so called woodworkers out there who take the cheapest, easiest road for a quick buck and give the true craftsmen out there a bad rep.

9/18/13       #14: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
Dave

I'd use 1.5-3mm edgebanding and Dorus HKP 25 (prime the back if using HPK 21).

I'm pretty sure cold press has fillers (e.g. walnut shell powder) to help minimize bleed through on unbacked veneer. Cold press is not as strong as Titebond II (2,508/656 VS 3,750/1,750 psi @ room/150 degrees). Cold press does have a longer open time, but its "Not recommended for exterior use or where moisture is likely."

9/18/13       #15: Titebond Cold Press glue for profil ...
art Member

Thanks, Dave. The EB is probably less than 1.5, but we've used it before on many jobs. I'll go out and check on which Dorus ID it is. My Unibond 600 arrives tomorrow, so we can start with our test run very soon.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)