Veneer

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Bubbling Veneer

9/16/16       
Jason Romig Member

We built this using a true phenolic backed quarted white oak veneer and applied it with a contact cement. Our shop is in Denver and shipped it to Chicago. Almost immediately we got a call that the veneer was bubbling which it obviously is from the pictures. I think it was caused by a humidity change from our dry climate to a humid one. In my opinion the bubbles are to tight and high to have been a failure at the contact glue line as the phenolic wouldn't bend and raise that tight, I believe it is more likely the veneer coming off the phenolic. What do you all think? Second does anyone have possible repairs other than replacing it all. Lastly does anyone have suggestions for future jobs we ship to humid climates? Obviously a hard glue is a better way go go but keep in mind we are building pieces that are 12-25' long and often are curved so there is no way to put that in a press for the glue to dry.


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9/16/16       #3: Bubbling Veneer ...
Rich

The veneer is de-laminating from the Phenolic. Don't even try to repair it, replace it.

9/17/16       #4: Bubbling Veneer ...
rich c.

I agree with the delimitation from the backer, but it may have been started with your finish. Did you use lacquer? The solvent may have softened the glue bond under the veneer, and then the humidity change did the rest.

9/17/16       #5: Bubbling Veneer ...
Jason Romig Member

It was a waterbased finish we applied? I have never heard of a waterbased finish causing a reaction with an adhesive below which just makes the whole thing more difficult for me to completely wrap my mind around.

9/17/16       #6: Bubbling Veneer ...
rich c.

I looked at the picture again. Is that piece being stored in a shed? That dented metal siding doesn't look good for cabinet storage, especially with the wide weather swings in Chicago. The door on the end looks tight as a drum. Did you use a different substrate with the doors? No backer on the case, but the door covered all around? I'd guess that piece almost had condensation on it sitting in an uncontrolled conditions of a warehouse or storage building.

9/17/16       #7: Bubbling Veneer ...
Jason Romig Member

The photo was taken while they were transferring trucks. It did not sit in storage in these conditions for more than a day. As for the substrate everything was exactly the same for the door and casework. Same veneer with phenolic backer was used on both too.

9/17/16       #8: Bubbling Veneer ...
rich c.

A day in 80% humidity might just be enough.

9/18/16       #9: Bubbling Veneer ...
Tom Gardiner

I don't think atmospheric moisture is the problem. If it were, you would be seeing gaping joints and splitting as the substrate would be growing in dimension. What we see here is shrinkage of substrate. Cause? I haven't a clue.

9/18/16       #10: Bubbling Veneer ...
Tom Gardiner

What is the substrate? I think I see horizontal (cross-grain) ripples printing through the veneer. More info is needed to understand what is going on.

9/19/16       #11: Bubbling Veneer ...
Jason Romig Member

The Veneer was on a phenolic backer. The substrate is a made by Plum Creek. They call it HDF Ultracore. Basically it is a 5 layer plywood with a 1/8" MDF face on both sides.

9/19/16       #12: Bubbling Veneer ...
Joel

Damn! That sucks. My guess would be the phenolic backer can't control the wood movement over CC. If you can find it in writing from the manufacturer that CC is ok with their product I'd say you got a potential lawsuit. BTW plywood+CC+fancy plastic backed veneer is to far from trusted standards in my book. Methinks you are putting to much faith in technology.

9/22/16       #14: Bubbling Veneer ...
Charles

For future reference, consider having a reputable shop do your layups for you. We have dozens of shops of all sizes come to us. You get balance matched panels with proper backers. When a run of flat panels are next to a curved panel we make a 3-ply veneer that can be vac pressed or contact cemented to a curved substrate. I'm sure that there are people in your area that can do that for you.

7/3/17       #15: Bubbling Veneer ...
door shop guy

I never did like using the plywood with two mdf faces. My suppliers call it Classic Core. Every single time i used it, it curled up like potato chips...could not keep it flat. the plywood cores always looked like chinese ply to me....i think it was the Columbia Forste Products brand.
I always really liked Plum Creek MDF...premium product in my experience.
For walls like that we would always use ind. particle board.
Sorry to see you are having this problem.


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