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open frameless cabinets

7/15/16       
Bob Member

I usually do a face frame cabinet if cabinets are open(no doors). Wanted to ask if anyone uses frameless for open cabinets and tips for making them look decent.

7/15/16       #2: open frameless cabinets ...
Leo G

All kinds of stuff you can do.


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7/15/16       #3: open frameless cabinets ...
Bob Member

What I meant was where 2 frameless cabinets join.

7/15/16       #4: open frameless cabinets ...
Leo G

That's not what you asked.

To join the cabinets you use sex bolts which go into the 5mm holes and through the cabinet into the other.

7/15/16       #5: open frameless cabinets ...
Bob Member

I am talking about how the face looks at the seams not how to fasten them together.
Whats not clear on my initial post?

7/16/16       #6: open frameless cabinets ...
cabmaker

Bob,

I've been designing and building cabinets for over 30 years. Your first post makes no sense at all. Your third post just barely introduces the topic.

If you want to have others help you with input you are going to need to put a little more effort into the project.

7/16/16       #7: open frameless cabinets ...
Kevin Jenness

For cabinets smaller than 8" (or whatever your panel length) make one box with common decks. For situations where boxes must be joined one simple solution is to space them apart with a recessed strip 1/8"-1/4" wide.

7/16/16       #8: open frameless cabinets ...
Bob Member

Thanks for your reply.
I am sorry my post was not clear.
What will the 1/8 or 1/4" spacer achieve where 2 cabinets are joined together?

7/16/16       #9: open frameless cabinets ...
Kevin Jenness

The spacer creates a reveal that masks any slight misalignment in the joint between boxes. I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "making them look decent".This is a simple way to detail the box intersections cleanly. You can sandwich a t-section overlapping the boxes to create a "stile", or do more elaborate overlays as Leo's photo shows.

7/16/16       #10: open frameless cabinets ...
Bob Member

Yes I was thinking about something similar but doing it by putting a 1/16 x 1/16 rabbit along one of the edges. What your suggesting is what I mean by make it look decent.

7/16/16       #11: open frameless cabinets ...
Leo G

If you're making these cabinets why join them? Make them as a single cabinet without the double stile.


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7/17/16       #12: open frameless cabinets ...
Bob Member

Without a cnc and case clamp its to labor intense.

7/17/16       #13: open frameless cabinets ...
Leo G

I suggest you give up this career Bob. You don't have it in you.

I don't have a CNC or a case clamp myself and yet, I was able to do it and make money.

7/17/16       #14: open frameless cabinets ...
Bob Member

Ha ha. Thank you for being concerned for my career. I guess my problem is 38 yrs of owning my own cabinet business and now doing 99% of the work myself(no employees). If I built cabinets like that I would go nuts. Blind dowel holes, biscuits, kd fittings or whatever else you used to make those horizontal joints.

7/17/16       #15: open frameless cabinets ...
Leo G

Well Bob. I'm not quite at 38 years but at 31 years and never having employees I think I can speak from experience. Making cabinets isn't always simple unless all you're doing is making boxes with doors. I did biscuits on that job and I could have done dowels because I had a jig made so it makes it easy to do.

If you are doing open bookshelf type cabinets and you can't handle the look of Euro cabs joining together I suggest you stick with the FF and just charge them for it.

7/17/16       #16: open frameless cabinets ...
Bob Member

Leo,
Well a couple of senior cabinet makers.
Congratulations on your longevity. Been doing mid to upper end work here in so cal.
This particular job is a rather large frameless kitchen and a walkin pantry with base/counters and open uppers. As I said in my first post I usually do frames on anything open but for a pantry I thought I would ask the pros and maybe some magic formula would arise. Do you plan to retire soon or will you work till you drop like me?

Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

cabinet_estimate.pdf



Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

2016_07_14_11_52_20.pdf



Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

2016_07_14_11_51_14.pdf

7/17/16       #17: open frameless cabinets ...
Leo G

Find the wood, grade the wood, cut the wood, assemble the project, sand the project, spray the project, scuff the project, spray the project, complete the assembly, transport the project, install the project, admire your work.

The last part is one of the few that I enjoy anymore. Everything else is just a job.

Yup, til I'm stone cold dead or win the lottery. And since I don't play the lottery......

7/18/16       #18: open frameless cabinets ...
Nate J.

Leo and CabMaker,

Would you like to know how you guys come off in your posts? Leo, if you were responding to yourself in your last post it would sound like this:

You should sand the project before assembly, only amatuers sand after a project has been put together.

Only two coats of finish? Even with conversion varnish that is inadequate. You should leave the finishing to the experts.

You transport your own project? And install it yourself? You'll never make any money that way, what's paying for your shop overhead while you're installing? Seriously, I think you should consider another career before its too late.

7/19/16       #19: open frameless cabinets ...
Kilgore Trout Member

The best part is that we have 3 'senior' cabinetmakers that have different methods of work, one asking for help and getting same. After 38 years or professional work, a man looks for a new way to do something - better for him, his shop, his client, whatever.

Admirable.

Then, knowledgeable people take time from their day to help out and explain some of their approaches to the problem.

I have said many times, this work is like sex - you find what works best and that is what works best. But it is nice to stir it up and take a look around and do a little experimenting. You may just find something better. (I know, that is a loaded statement, but you get the idea)

At any rate, it is always good to read what experienced and knowledgeable people do in a given situation, and see the exchange of ideas and methods.

7/19/16       #20: open frameless cabinets ...
Bob Member

Amen

7/19/16       #21: open frameless cabinets ...
cabmaker

I've been working with wood since I was a young man. I was there when the first edition of Fine Woodworking magazine was published in black & white. I can remember Tage Frid waxing eloquent about the merits of building your house door jambs with french dovetail construction so they could be adjusted for seasonal changes in humidity.

Fine Woodworking magazine was like the Kama Sutra for us who enjoyed working with wood. There were new things to learn every day and we were excited to learn them. Then the internet came along and it just got so much better.

The woodweb has gotten better too. The writing is better. YOU JUST ABOUT NEVER SEE PEOPLE WRITE EVERYTHING IN ALL CAPS ANYMORE WITHOUT TAKING A BREATH OR RECOGNIZING THAT DIFFERENT THOUGHTS SHOULD ORGANIZE IN DIFFERENT PARAGRAPHS. ETC.

My original input to Bob was merely that he take the rocks out of his mouth when he is trying to convey a thought. I wasn't being condescending. I was just being helpful. We just need to be more philosophical.

7/24/16       #22: open frameless cabinets ...
Dave L

As Leo said, there are a lot of ways to do it. I've done quite a few with some combination of confirmats, dowels and minifix (1st image). I've also done a lot that involved some kind of built up edge. The second image is three boxes with horizontal built up edges and vertical T-molding (1/4" leg sandwiched between 5/8" side panels).


View higher quality, full size image (640 X 480)


View higher quality, full size image (1024 X 768)

7/24/16       #23: open frameless cabinets ...
Bruce H

Based on how I interpreted the original question and, the plans later provided. I'd make euro boxes, sex bolt them together and move on. It's a euro project and that is how it is done. If you feel the need to "dress it up" then put a vertical slat over the joints. You can make this as difficult or a simple as you want.

I have been making cabinets for more than thirty five years. Changed to euro about thirty years ago and most likely don't know everything but, I tried to answer your question with what seemed like a reasonable solution to me.

I did think reading the other replies was entertaining!...


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