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Painted White Oak7/22
I have an upcoming door that is frame and panel that the client wants to be painted flat sawn White oak on the outside and Rift W/O on the inside. Does anyone see any problems when it comes to the panels and how they are laminated ( 4" wide Flat grain outside/4" wide Rift inside glued back to back and then edge glued together). Or should they float seperate from each other and only edge glued together ?
The whole point of quartered and rift oak is to minimize wood movement and shrinkage.
I suspect you know the answer to the question and are hoping some responses here will prove you are wrong !
Unfortunately you are not.....they will move differently enough to cause a problem if glued together back to back.
That is of course if you are referring to the panels. The rails and stiles will be narrow enough that it should be a problem.
You could resaw the plain sawn down to about 1/16" and use it as a face veneer on the rift rear. That would give you a stable panel
If these are going to be painted then what would be the difference in using rift or quartered? I can't see any effect one way or the other. Plus to be honest I don't know if anyone could tell the difference between paint rift and painted plain sawn. The grain will be completely covered and only the pores will protrude through the paint coating.
By the way painting oak is often referred to as pickling......at least one way of painting it. Is that what you are planning? If so then "maybe" you might see a grain difference through the rubbed off paint surfaces.
Thank you BH,
White oak is the "original" New England area pressure treated wood so to speak. It is the most rot resistant species around here and in the olden days was used for fence posts and anything else that needed to be in contact with the ground.
The use of kiln dried white oak for an exterior project though could be subject to problems. Your ambient moisture content is going to go back up to around 13% which is a good hike up from a kiln dried content of 7% to 8%. Quartered or rift is going to be relatively stable in movement over typical interior seasonal changes but even that might move too much on its way back up to 13% if used outdoors.
If you go this route don't skimp on the paint quality.......especially the primer coat. Also if you make your own 1/16" veneer cut plain sawn use exterior glues to bond it to the rift layer. Veneer cements don't even do that great indoors.....IMHO.
Are you talking about laminating veneer, or laminating solid wood back to back?
For the panel: solid wood back to back
Flat sawn glued to rift is going to cause trouble.
I would tell them that qtr sawn white oak is just about the nicest looking wood on the shelf. It would build the best door aesthetically and structurally.
I agree with Adam, plus if it is going to be stained, W Oak can be stained to match any color that R Oak can, plus some. If the color doesn't have any red tone, you don't have to take extra steps to kill the red.
Not to mention White Oak has built in decay and insect resistance missing from R Oak.
If the panel is just flat, then glue the center of the two panels with the grain. Then both can move the way they want and be captured at the center. Not sure if you pin panels or space ball them. I pin them with 23ga in the top and bottom center.
That is is very interesting idea. Never thought of that one. In theory you could do that with any different panels. As long as you only run a vertical bead of glue in the center.
Same as I treat a breadboard end on a wide counter. I pin it about 6-8" apart in the center with holes the same size as the pins. Then the rest of the pin holes on the tongue get elongated so they can let the countertop move with the climate.
That way it stays locked to center.
I typically use the 23 gauge pinner as well for cabinet doors. Space balls are an annoying time wasting invention. I was referring to actually bonding along the centerline of two seperate panels. They act as one panel but expand independently. It would work well in one of these weird two sided panel interior doors.
I used to make exterior doors and used two panels back to back with a sheet of stiff plastic between to isolate the movement differences and the humidity transfer. Also pinned at CL. Recently looked at a door I did over 20 years ago. No cracked panels.
What needs to be recognized is that rift and flat sawn sort of move in different directions- flat sawn shrinks and swells mostly in width, rift and quartered shrinks and swells mostly in thickness. Gluing them
Patrick, you began this thread with "painted, flat sawn Wht. Oak (ext.) & Clear finished Rift sawn (int.)"
"painted" can mean a lot of different things, and I would like to know more...
if Exterior side is to be solid opaque finish, Id suggest you build this (back to back construction) door entirely of rift sawn Wht Oak.
For 3k polyesters & 2k urethanes; I've had excellent results with Sherwin products & especially with Sayerlac (which is now carried (owned by?) Sherwin Williams
however there are plenty of other sources as well
good luck with this project, & please post some photos as you build it.
by the way, if your client insists on flat sawn ext. & rift sawn int. you may want to consider a different construction method.