|Home » Forums Ľ Cabinetmaking Ľ Message||Login|
You are not logged in. Consider these WOODWEB Member advantages:
Frameless boxes per day9/24
I'm ramping up production this week and most of my systems are working well, helper is in sync.
So I'm curious as to how many frameless boxes are other two man shops out there getting out per day. I'm looking for average number of average boxes. Cut, banded , hardwared, assembled and in the delivery truck . No finishing , but putting on fronts and doors , drawers etc..
By average I mean some uppers some bases some drawer stacks and a few talls.
One main guy and a helper.
2 man shop equals 10 man days (10 hours a day for me, 8 for helper) or 90 hours in a week. If doors and parts are in unfinished but drawerboxes are made in house:
2 man days in drawers (this is a variable, maybe you orders these)
10 man days=1 week=35-40 boxes depending on type of boxes or 7-8 cabinets a day with drawers. add 15% (not 20%, you still have to unload, unwrap, dispose of pallet(s), sort and insert outsourced drawers consuming 5%).
I still don't have enough data for my new setup, but with my old one, while building 3/4" frameless melamine cabinets with slab melamine doors:
Step 1: braking down 4'x8' sheets on cheap vertical panel saw
Step 2: cutting cabinet parts on regular table saw
Step 3: dadoing deck, left and right sides for cabinet back, which is 1/8" hardboard,
Step 4: edgebanding with hot air gun and manually trimming
Step 6: assembling cases with screws on non visible sides and pocket holes on visible ones
Step 7: building drawer boxes from 1/2" prefinished plywood, edgebandind on top edges
Step 8: Installation of drawer hardware, cabinet doors and drawer faces.
Assuming that all the material is already in the shop in the morning when I start I alone could make about 8 cabinets per day, usually 1 sink cabinet, 2 base cabinets (with 1 or 2 drawers on top and doors beneath), and 5 wall cabinets of various sizes.
It wasn't always like that. When I first started it would take me several days to make 8-10 cabinets, but with the time I made a number of jigs and "inventions" that made my life easier and acquired more skill and become faster.
Also, my previous shop was not big enough for all that and some (actually a lot!, by industry standards) time was wasted for constantly shuffling things around to make space for the next operation, or to make space for newly cut parts and so on.
Just a week ago I've moved to a little bigger space to accommodate some new equipment. I'll be cutting parts on the slider saw, edgeband on entry level edgebanding machine and assemble cases with dowels using construction boring machine and caseclamp.
What I figured out was an average dollar volume per day, some jobs are more involved. So a 10k job may take 12 man days regardless of how many boxes are built. Imo you may be better off concerning yourself with profit not volume.
Good points for sure.
I am going to focus on only watching budgets regardless of how many boxes we can achieve each day.
The problem is too variable to compare shops. 1st guy has a cnc, slider, good bander, and dowel machine. Youíve got a cabinet saw and a track saw. The helper is using an iron and utility knife on the edge banging. Weíve got a hinge insertion machine you are drilling on a drill press and manually screwing then into the doors.
Forklift vs your guy lifting sheets.
You can see where this is all going.
You need to watch your own numbers. If you stop increasing your output something is going wrong. It takes time and hard work to truly optimise.
I am set up as follows :
So I guess my real question is how much production dollars are similar set up shops able to achieve with a similar set up.
Mainly focusing on commercial millwork.
1900 sq feet
I want to be the best in my space .
Having a somewhat larger space for that amount of machinery would probably help you much more in reaching that goal than anything else.
I know that from personal experience.
From cutting in the morning, about 20-30 depending on the complexity of the job
We have about the same equipment with the exception of an offloading conveyor
Our assembly happens right off the bander
I know this isn't a direct answer to your question, but I toured the Nobilia cabinet factory in Germany last year and in 2018 they produced 727,000 frameless KITCHENS out of only two factories. They not only produce the cabinets but also make coutertops and ship the finished kitchens with appliances. They made 33,300 boxes and 7680 countertops per day! As you might imagine, it was mind blowing.
I would look at revenue per employee per hour,day, week year.
I think you are right on Oggie, I do need more space . Revenue per man hour is a great metric to track . Iím going to go with that.
And thanks for the actual numbers as I want to shoot for real goals.
By your numbers, Derrick, do you mean to imply that an 8 hour kitchen install for one installer would net 4800.00 ? If that is the case you have the most profitable installers that I have ever heard of. I would be thrilled to install for 24,000.00 per week, hell I may quit making cabinets and just install for you.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Derrek is talking revenue per man hour. So if all your revenue comes from installing, then yes, that would be it. I believe his revenue comes from both the sales of product and the installation of such.
We manufacture cabinets and install them. Last year, we were over $350k per production employee. There are 3 of us here, 1 admin, and 2 production/install.
Numbers like this are useful for calculating what you need to do in sales per employee to break even and be profitable.
Boxes per day doesn't tell you very much and can be a little dangerous, especially if you are losing money on each box.
We calculate just about everything based on revenue. For example, our crew can typically install about $14k of revenue per day. This is helpful for estimating install time.....a $60k job should take 4 days.
Our install per hour is calculated by time on the job. Itís not perfect and can vary by product and material choices, but itís an easy to track score and works well across the board. Last week we had an average for all jobs of $538 per hour.