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It's time to chuck cnc in my tool belt.

4/11/15       
Mel

We need another programmer. Small town, not much available talent. Shop foreman doubles up as CNC programmer--as best he can as he's crazy busy.

I'm pretty sure I could tackle it. Looking at alternate routes to learning then the course.

I have autocad at home and a husband that knows it through and through, and is totally willing to put in the time to teach me.

We have a Biesse, and they use the Biesse programing system. Should I learn that or just go with autocad? Its a seperate PC that gets used for programing--must be transferable?

I have a good friend that teaches CNC at the local university--everything up to 5 axis. He owes me a favor or ten, willing to come to my work place and teach me for free.

Can I pull this off without the course? I'm thinking I can. That husband has taught me calculus, that I stopped attending courses for, in a week, before an exam.

Anyone else learned programing with good resources/no course?

4/11/15       #2: It's time to chuck cnc in my tool b ...
Mike

You'll pick it up easy, it's really not that complicated. It really depends on the person and from what you write you just need to go see how it works, learn the process, and then dig deeper from there. You can probably skip Autocad, that has the largest learning curve of the software we have and it isn't needed in the shop for anything, just design only. Newer machines have become extremely user friendly, but if it takes floppies you might be in for a ride.

4/13/15       #3: It's time to chuck cnc in my tool b ...
Mel Member

The autocad vs biesse programing dilemma is a learning-ease issue.

If I learn autocad, I get to get taught by an intelligent, calm person, who likes to teach, with tons of experience. Although outside of cabinet making.

I learn the Biesse system, I get a cabinet-making, tailor-made-to-our-company series of lessons. But from an angry person, who hates people, and has no time.

If the systems easily speak to each other, I would for sure go down the autocad route.

Any thoughts?

4/13/15       #4: It's time to chuck cnc in my tool b ...
Mike

The programs you describe are not interchangeable. Depending on what part of the 'programming' your trying to accomplish you need to know the corresponding software. I'm guessing Autocad to draw parts and Biesse to toolpath/generate g-code? Autocad can generate g-code with add-ons; and the Biesse might let you draw and toolpath...but if both are used by the programmer you're going to want to learn both.

4/13/15       #5: It's time to chuck cnc in my tool b ...
Mel

"I'm guessing Autocad to draw parts and Biesse to toolpath/generate g-code?"

That's it.

Our lack right now is definitely in drafting. The toolpath and coding is enough under control.

I'm just thinking--I currently work in the hardwood detailing dept. As much as I love saws, I do recognize that things could be more efficient/safer with a good base drawing.

But no one has time/knowledge to draw up our weird custom parts. I'd love to do it, I do love to draft.

So I guess my question is how transferable is autocad to biesse?

4/14/15       #6: It's time to chuck cnc in my tool b ...
Mike

Transferable...I have no experience with Biesse software so I'm just guessing a lot here...but no it's probably not and it doesn't need to be. It's not really relevant since it's two different tools, your not doing the same job with both. You'll recognize similar elements in both for sure, but what's important is the understanding of the cnc, how it works, what it's capable of...and the software necessary; or the understanding of cad/drafting/engineering/design...and the software necessary; or maybe both.

FWIW If you love to draw/draft you should have learned autocad already

4/14/15       #7: It's time to chuck cnc in my tool b ...
Dropout Member

Forget both of them and learn something like Aspire or another 3d program.

Most of the good ones will post to the Biesse.

4/15/15       #8: It's time to chuck cnc in my tool b ...
Mel

Aww Mike, easy, I'm so new. Very good at a lot of other things, doing very well at woodworking, but new at it.

So Drop-out--3d is indeed the ticket if I take a second to think about it. And it is a fact that autocad is not a 3d master.

Thanks, I'll have a good solid look at it.

4/16/15       #9: It's time to chuck cnc in my tool b ...
Mike

I wouldn't call Aspire true 3d software - you can't even draw in 3d, it can only generate 3d shapes (from 2d drawings) and manipulate 3d objects. It's great software and I highly recommend it, but it's not true 3d.

You can draw in 3d in autocad; and if it's within your abilities to learn it you won't be wasting your time - it is the defacto standard in cad and what you learn will make other cad and cam software much easier to learn especially if your teaching yourself.

Sketchup is another one that is good to have under your belt. Sketchup is the easiest thing to learn if you want to draw in 3d; but if your worried about programming parts at work you mostly likely will never need 3d unless those parts are corbels and artworkish parts. I would eastimate 99.99% of woodwork related cnc programming (non-hobby of course) fall into the drawing in 2d catagory, with the 3rd dimension aspect happening when you create toolpaths (...entering depths of cuts). I've seen a couple people learn cnc, you have those who seem to understand what's going on and those how learn the process and know what buttons to push. If you're more than a button pusher, once you start learning it won't be long before it hits you how really simple it is and everything starts making sense and becomes self explanatory, almost.

4/16/15       #10: It's time to chuck cnc in my tool b ...
cabinetmaker

Mel. Learn "autocad" you can you use in several industries

Having the foreman program is obviously causing him stress. Be better off in drawing in a program and posting to the Biesse via cam software. We do this from the office.

Our foreman is held accountable for production on the floor and he rips into me with problems over the software issues causing downtime for his schedule. He can run the cnc and program it, but his main job is politely lighting a fire under all asses. He does this every now and again by showing them up - quality, speed of fabrication and general assemble - he is demanding a higher standard through example

4/17/15       #11: It's time to chuck cnc in my tool b ...
Mel Member

K-- so I have trouble unfolding who thinks autocad is too hard and how bad it actually is. Every engineer I know uses it. They all tell me it is horrendously user unfriendly as a learner, but once you get the hang of it it is the best you can get.

Which hey, I kinda respect the whole "this ain't an Iphone and we didn't make it for newbs--we made it to perform" whole idea.

Sold. On it. Thanks :)

4/17/15       #12: It's time to chuck cnc in my tool b ...
Mike

Mel,
There are lots of programs to produce code for the machine. Everyone of them will take part geometry created in AutoCAD. I have never used Biesse Works, but I have used Aspire, Aspan, Alphacam, and Mastercam. Almost all of my assemblies and part programs are crated in AutoCAD or Inventor before going to Alphacam(currently) to apply tool paths. It all starts in CAD. Learn that, then learn how to be a good programmer. Programming is a different skill set and a craft that is being lost to automation, but the skill level of a programmer is apparent just by watching a machine run. Have fun learning your software, it can be very rewarding.

4/17/15       #13: It's time to chuck cnc in my tool b ...
Richard

Hi Mel,

Firstly, yes you can do this without attending any course. You are already on the right track, you have a desire to learn and you are asking questions from those who have already been in your position.

I have a question for you. What type of products are you producing with the CNC in your shop? This will make a difference on the direction you should be looking at focusing your energies.

In general I tend to agree that no time will be wasted learning Autocad as it is the industry standard and most other products use similar concepts & functions. That being said you will still need to learn a CAM package in order to turn your Autocad vectors into code that your Biesse can cut. I think this is why some posters are suggesting you skip Autocad as you could then just learn one software product that does both CAD and CAM

Personally I learnt CNC by programming Biesse P2P machines at the controller before switching to BobCAD when my company purchased a nested based machine. At the time I dabbled with Autocad but found the vast number of tools overwhelming. I have since learnt Autocad and in my opinion none of the CAM packages I have used are as efficient at drawing 2D parts.

Currently I use Draftsight for 2D drawings which I then import into Enroute which automatically applies toolpaths, nests and generates G-code. Draftsight is basically a Autocad light clone. It does not have all the features of the full blown version but it more than meets my needs for 2D, it's free and uses less of my PC's resources.

Whichever way you go enjoy the ride & keep asking questions!

Richard

http://www.3ds.com/products-services/draftsight-cad-software/free-download/

4/19/15       #14: It's time to chuck cnc in my tool b ...
Mel Member

I've said it a couple times, but I'll say it again--this forum has amazing minds. Thanks for indulging a newb and being so kind about it :)

"What type of products are you producing with the CNC in your shop? This will make a difference on the direction you should be looking at focusing your energies"

K-- so we are making bread-and-butter gables for the most part. But having worked for my friend who makes public art with a cnc, I know for a fact that the range of use is huge.

I work in the hard wood detailing dept, and I realise that a lot of the custom things we make involve a lot of precision machining (time consuming). I think that a lot of this could be done with a cnc--question of a math oriented person drafting it.

I am for sure that person--I make our custom/repeat (for now hand drawn)drafts using algebra to plug in varying dimensions to fit standard proportions. It's efficient for what it is but I want to kick it up a notch.

I'm thinking just dive into autocad because it's a resource that is there for me. Wrap brain around computer drafting, work from there.

Thanks again--you folks truly are fun :)

7/15/15       #15: It's time to chuck cnc in my tool b ...
Bob

Hi Mel,

Chiming in a little late as usual. I run a biesse rover 30. No 3d or 2.5d just closet parts. Several posters hinted at this but I just wanted to reinforce it. There are 2 different types of programing for use with the CNC.
CAD and CAM, Auto cad is for design and sounds great but you will also need a compatible CAM software to generate G code. There is also just G code programing, This can be done in text or with the help of an editor like Biesse works. Mine predates Biesse Works but has an editor that help write g gode.

CAD - Computer aided DESIGN
needs to interface with
CAM - Computer Aided MANUFACTURING - generates g code to run the machine.

All g code is not the exactly the same so CAM programs have "post processors" or posts for different machines, Think of them like printer drivers.

Or you can get down and dirty and write g code. (I love this part)

One rule of thumb I think you already know - the more powerful the software the harder it will be to learn.

Just reread and one poster said AutoCad can generate G code. That would make it CAD-CAM. Other programs like Aspire are CAD-CAM or what is referred to as Screen to machine. Just make sure before you invest a lot of time to make sure your strategy covers both elements so you don't have any surprises after a large investment in time.

I am of the mind set that with the internet any determined average person can learn almost any skill. With the help of forums like this for someone like you AutoCad ,,, no worries, You probably have the basics covered already!

Sorry if this is just a rehash of past posts,


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